Mother Jones - Comments for "30 Million Years to Recover From Extinction?"

Kurt,

Thanks. This conversation was starting to go in circles. I'm glad you ended it by Godwin's Law. Oh, unfortunately, of course, you lose for doing so. Still though, I hope you'll think it was worth it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Josh has clearly failed to understand my point about foo and bar above. He also seems to forget that he has only pointed to a single individual, which does not make it OK to kill innocent civilians who happen to be from the same country. He's now stuck in a shampoo-rinse-repeat loop. I'll bow out at this point. Godwin's Law closes the entire thread anyway.

Yitzhak Shamir, once a terrorist and responsible for the deaths of Count Folke Bernadotte, UN mediator and British official Lord Moyne. Shamir,would later would become prime minister of Israel, declared that 'neither Jewish ethics nor Jewish tradition can disqualify terrorism as a means of combat.'" What goes around comes around. Those that live by the sword, die by the sword.

Yeah, apparently you two are the best example of extintion in the World, probably the human will disappear tommorrow or maybe in three years fightting about things that seems to be in the past.

Contrary to what most people think, the Nazis were ardent socialists (hence the term "National socialism"). They believed in free health care and guaranteed jobs. They confiscated inherited wealth and spent vast sums on public education. They purged the church from public policy, promoted a new form of pagan spirituality, and inserted the authority of the state into every nook and cranny of daily life. The Nazis declared war on smoking, supported abortion, euthanasia, and gun control. They loathed the free market, provided generous pensions for the elderly, and maintained a strict racial quota system in their universities?where campus speech codes were all the rage. The Nazis led the world in organic farming and alternative medicine. Hitler was a strict vegetarian, and Himmler was an animal rights activist. Sounds a lot like the left in America today.

Contrary to what most people think, the Nazis were ardent socialists (hence the term "National socialism"). They believed in free health care and guaranteed jobs. They confiscated inherited wealth and spent vast sums on public education. They purged the church from public policy, promoted a new form of pagan spirituality, and inserted the authority of the state into every nook and cranny of daily life. The Nazis declared war on smoking, supported abortion, euthanasia, and gun control. They loathed the free market, provided generous pensions for the elderly, and maintained a strict racial quota system in their universitieswhere campus speech codes were all the rage. The Nazis led the world in organic farming and alternative medicine. Hitler was a strict vegetarian, and Himmler was an animal rights activist. Sounds a lot like the left in America today.

Josh,

LOL!!! I was thinking the same about you and for the same reasons.

You think that Palestinians are so bad that you need to "give them a pass".

I think they're normal human beings subject to the same rules the rest of us play by. Human rights violations are the same for U.S., Israel, Rwanda, and Palestine. It's you that needs to understand this better.

Scott, I would recommend that you need to be sent to a "reeducation camp"(a place where individuals could be rehabilitated into society through education and socially constructive labor).
because you apparently do not understand the principles of "multiculturalism" (no one culture is any better than another) and you appear not to understand third world people. Beware, opposition to multiculturalism is first cousin to racism.

One more point, the fact that you can find others who take abhorrent actions does not make the actions of Hamas less abhorrent. It just adds them to a collection of morally reprehensible actions.

The argument that (foo) is not bad because (bar) is worse does not hold water. It's a fallacy from the start. (foo) is bad. Period. That (bar) is worse just means there is more wrong with the world than simply (foo).

You can insert anything you like for (foo) and (bar). (bar)'s existence will never make (foo) any better.

Josh,

You're certainly very good at making up [deleted] about me. I wonder where you got all of that.

I am not a Jewish nationalist at all. If you read my posts, you will see that I started by admitting that both sides are wrong.

What bothers me is that you have a double moral standard. This is not scientific. It is bullshit founded upon absolutely nothing.

Hamas is a terrorist organization. This is not in debate. This is fact. They deliberately target civilians in order to instill terror.

The U.S. was a terrorist nation when we deliberately targeted civilians in Hiroshima.

You can rationalize all you want. It's not about third world versus developed world or democratic nation versus theocracy. Israel is a theocracy.

Terrorism is about deliberate targeting of civilians. There will always be collateral damage. That cannot be avoided. But, when the U.S. deliberately picked a non-military target in Hiroshima, that was terrorism. When Hamas deliberately targets civilians (on both sides, by the way, one by their direct action, one by their knowledge that Israel will strike at the point from which the rocket was launched), that is terrorism.

You have rationalized an abhorrent viewpoint to your own satisfaction. But, it does nothing for me. Terrorism is wrong no matter who commits it.

That is my opinion. I am entitled to it. Who's to say what is right and what is wrong? Each of us has that ability. My voice says that terrorism is wrong. Yours tolerates it. For that, I find your views unconscionable and abhorrent.

Scott, there are numerous situations in our society where women who kill their children or their husbands get a pass and get a stern warning and some mental health treatment. You apparently are deficient in your multi-cultural education or you would understand. From an European perspective(our intellectual superiors), the Israelis are the guilty party in their occupation and the concentration camp(in Europe the Israelis are referred to as the new Nazis) that they run in Gaza. Why else do the Europeans give billions of dollars to help the third world people(Palestinians)? Israel's founders were terrorists(from the British perspective). If you admit that, than I will admit the same about Hamas and their kin). You are a Jewish nationalist, like 70% of the American Jews(according to the Jewish polls that I read), I am in the other 30% who are not racists. I am a Scientist and an internationalist, not a narrow minded nationalist. From a Scientific standpoint, your source of morals comes from your Judaeo background, as well as your nationalism. That is fine, according to evolution, the world is made up of all types and kinds of life forms. But please don't be so judgmental on right and wrong. Who is to say what is right and what is wrong, as the TAO states.

Oops. Typo in my above comment. In my I meant to say in paragraph 7:

You will NOT arrest the person and take away the gun.

Actually Josh,

I get my view of right or wrong from properly functioning morals processing centers in my brain. Science has a lot to say about morals these days. You should start by reading about the trolley problems and brain scans of people undergoing the test.

As for continuation of the species being all that is important, I assume you would be OK with something that killed off 95% of the humans on the planet since that is likely a requirement for our survival.

Either way though, I say to you that your double standard makes you a despicable human being in my opinion.

Analogies by definition can only be perfect if they are exactly the same as the situation being analogized. That said, they can be quite useful for illustrating various points. Here's one that I think will let you know why I find your views abhorrent.

Consider an individual raised in an obviously disadvantaged situation. I'll leave the details of that situation to your imagination while assuming there to be some situation that both of us would agree meets the definition.

Said individual reaches the age of 23 and gets his/her hands on a gun. The individual proceeds to shoot 12 people of varying ages. Surely, this person must not be held to the same standards as the rest of us, so you will "give [him/her] a pass".

You will not convict such a person for murder. You will arrest the person and take away the gun. You will not even give the person a warning not to do this again. In fact, you will stand by, give the person a pass (your words), and not even be willing to state that the action was wrong.

That is what you do with the Palestinians, exactly and in no uncertain terms.

You will not even state for the record here on this site that you believe their deliberate targeting of civilians is wrong. You will not state that it is wrong when they deliberately fire rockets from residential areas in hopes that Israel will retaliate against the exact locale from which the rocket was fired. In short, when they kill innocent men, women, and children, you think it's morally acceptable because you hate Jews.

Therefore, I find your morals highly suspect and your views unconscionable.

I too am a progressive. However, I recognize racial bias when I see it. I recognize bad morals when I see them. And, I stand up and say it, like this:

You, Josh, are a small-minded bigot with an unconscionable and inconsistent moral code.

Scott, from a scientific evolutionary standpoint, there is no right or wrong, only the continuation of the species. Where do you get your sense of right and wrong? Surely not from science. In science there is no right nor wrong. I only claim to be a scientist, not a philosopher. I do point out the contradictions in others.

Josh,

You're welcome to come to my blog and read the detailed reasons for my misanthropic nature and exactly what I mean by it instead of picking some misanthrope no one ever heard of and assuming that my views must be exactly the same.

Personally, I advocate only voluntary reduction of human population through attrition. I am a member of the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement, which simply means that I have chosen not to breed and perpetuate the problem of our species.

Josh,

Your double standard of morality makes you a complete bigot. If you're not willing to admit that, then you are a hypocrite as well. Since you still refuse to state that blowing up school buses is flat dead wrong as an action for any humans under any circumstances, I am forced to also state that you are doing a fine job of living up to the myth of your genocidal namesake in the Bible.

You also do a fine job of reminding me of exactly what I hate about our species. In my opinion, you are a complete waste of valuable planetary resources. May the meat that is currently tied up in your body be recycled soon into more useful organisms, for example, earthworms.