Mother Jones - Comments for "The Great Debate of Our Season"

I am a live and let live kind of person. I don't want to tell others what to think or believe and I don't want anyone telling me what to think or believe. However, it seems to me that there are two kinds of people of faith, any faith. The first is the the kind of person who looks at religous doctrine and understands that it was written at a time when people were trying to understand their origin and their ultimate place in the world. They realize that being the only creatures we know of who understand thier mortality fostered fantastical stories and mystical explanations to comfort us. They waned to explain how we got here, were we go when we die and what to do while we are here. They are curious about our world and are comfortable with not having all of the answers to life's hardest questions. They believe that there is a higher being but that doesn't mean that he is the answer to everything. The other kind of person is not comfortable with the big questions of life and so wants an explaination no matter how irrational it may be. They want to be told how to act and what to think because life is hard and not having this all written out for you can be tough. If you study theology you soon learn that most the world's religions teach the same basic things. Furthermore they almost all have a Christ-like figure. If you study the history of the Bible you learn that the writings many Christians claim to be the word of God were decided on by committee. Emperor Constantine decided which gospels to include and which to leave out based on the politics of the time. There are at least 4 more "gospels" for example that were left out. The books that spoke of Jesus being human and being married were left out. Later it was decided that the books that spoke about Jesus needed miracles to attract more followers, in other words, the original versions of the gospels did not speak about miracles. And now people are using this book to separate themselves from their nieghbors and justify their extreme views. I have no problem when in the privacy of their own home or place of worship people choose to call this the word of God, what ever that means, but I have a real problem when they try to use this book to prevent the teaching of science in schools or to change laws in this country. We look at a religion like the Taliban and think it is insane, they knock down schools to keep people ignorant they oppress their own people and especially anyone who does not adhere to their extreme religious rules. We look at them as ignorant and barbaric. If we do not nip this extreme christian movement in the bud we will be dealing with our own Taliban right here in the U.S. I would have thought the religious right would have been embarassed during one of the 1st republican debates that 3 or more of the candidates held up their hands when asked who here believes in creationism. The rest of the world must look at us and laugh and put us in the same category as the extremists, frankly I wouldn't blame them.

The troubling thing about all Judaic religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam is that it's story is so idiotic as to be mind boggling.

A talking snake convinces a woman to eat a fruit which she shares with her common law husband. Having been spotted by an omnipotent God who planted the tree the fruit grew on they are exiled from the Garden for them and their descendants to live in absolute misery.

The reason being that they might eat another fruit which would enable them to be like God.

??????????

Where's the omnipotence here?

"But wait, there's more!"

The not so omnipotent God, fearful of what humans may become, will forgive the transgression if only humans would torture and kill his Son.

Is this sanity? Of course not, it's psychotic drivel.

And this is why we need to keep religion out of politics. Anyone believing this garbage lives in a weird alternate reality and cannot be entrusted with the conduct of Government. Not even of an insane asylum where strange beliefs abound.

Those that borrow and do not repay must feel God has supplied their needs. That's how they feel anytime they take away something that belongs to someone else. Like my freedom to marry the woman I love. They are wolves in sheeps clothing, like predicted in the Bible - which happens to be my Bible too!

In the 3rd century AD, Constantine came to the conclusion that organized religion could control the masses. That was the beginning of politicized theocracy which has culminated in what we see today as a battle between the "Christian Right" and the "Liberal Left". Assuming the right is correct is as erroneous as assuming the left is lost. Long story short...what I have become, the ideals that I value, the changes I've made in my life, the hope I have for my family and my country, are all based on the fact that from the moment I first "believed" until this very moment, I've had the Holy Spirit to help & guide me; and without Him I know I wouldn't be the man I am now, period. I simply would not have made these changes on my own. So, if I truly feel that my faith has changed me, why would I want to mandate others to act, feel or do as I have without the same help? The truth is, I don't. When the church was first established, we didn't have political power, political rhetoric or financial backing. Christians were simply a small light in the midst of tremendous political (Roman) darkness and profound intellectualism (Greek). Early Christians were neither left nor right, just believers. What we have today is a feeble attempt at religion. What we need today is a focus on relationship (with God). I am a Christian by God's choosing and a Democrat by my own. There aren't enough Republicans in the world to convince me otherwise; as the Word states "...even the elect will be deceived." The religious right has lost its way from God's truth in promoting its own truths to such a degree, that they have successfully created that which our Founding Fathers fought and died to prevent -- an American "Church of England". God has given every man & woman a choice in how to live and whether or not to believe, so what makes us think that Christians or our government officials have the right to dictate otherwise?
Christian and Democrat - I enjoyed your response.

A. I agree 100% with tracy.
B. have you ever heard of a moron named Pat Robertson? after 9/11, he announced that we deserved what we got because we are sinfull nation. the "sins" he mentioned? not murdering gays, treating women like people and daring to have logical thoughts.
Now, I'm christian, have been all my life, and i would NEVER agree with a single word he said. (as you probably guessed from my phrasing) people like that aren't christian. the people who follow them aren't christian. My aunt sees fit to lecture me about reading books like Harry Potter, claiming it's devil worship. she has never read the bible. she believes whatever her preacher tells her and has never read that which she is using as a basis for calling me a whore and borderline devil-worshiper. I have read it, btw.
that sort of malicious, blind idiocy passing off as faith is one of the nations biggest problems. Unfortunatly, i'm at a loss on how to cure stupidity.

If the founders meant for the US to be a religious country then why is there no mention of "God" or "Christianity" in the Constitution? Yet they make it a point to say "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust". And furthermore as one blogger mentioned, "Thomas Jefferson wrote that there should be separation of Church and state in his letters". If they meant us to interject religion in to our government then why did they not include in this most important document?

Jeffrey,

I couldn't agree with you more...well said!

No liberal can win against the Christian Right because they don't understand how to defeat it. I'm amazed that liberals still haven't figured it out.

The litmus test of sincere Christianity involves who u voted for in the last two presidential elections... If it was Bush, better hit your knees and ask for further guidance.

Very well said...and, unfortunately, utterly true.

I've heard some rumors that Jesus was actually the bastard (illigitimate) son of a Roman soldier; & that he or his mom made up the story about his "immaculate" conception, to hide their shame.
Does anyone here know anything about this?

Yes Tracey I agree.

We are human.We make mistakes.There are good and bad people of all religions and races,but,being human,we have our likes and dislikes.We tend to be biased and emotional.and that,friends,is what usually blinds us to the truth.Tradition and ritual.Jesus angered a lot of official people when he spoke about this.Wonder who he would anger today.

I believe Democrats and other progressives DO understand the Christion point of view, particularly since so many of us are Christians. We just don't spend all our time talking the talk - most of us actually walk the walk.

I do not take issue with a citizen's right to worship and to attend the church of his/her choice. The problem, as I see it, is that some are using the cloak of religion to disguise their true agendas. George W. Bush did it in 2000 and again in 2004. It's the old "screw you on Saturday, Sunday go to meetin'". Religion has often been a tool in our country's history to hide racism, bigotry and greed.