Mother Jones - Comments for "Clintonistas Versus Neocons on the Success of the Surge"

cool

Ed,

Your comments about the Vietnaum War ending becuse the Russians provided the Vietnamese with the 'SAM 3 Misile System' that was 'heat seaking and laser-guided' are hilarious! Your assertion is not even wrong...it is sciecnce fiction. First of all, go to Wikipedia or GlobalSecurity.Org or some other open source and look up the SA-3...there is no mention of IR or laser guidance...Also, the Vietnamese made their money using the SA-2, which also wasn't IR or laser-guided. Aslo, we left Vietnaum not because of B-52 loss rates, but because we realized that we couldn't chase down and kill villagers who waved at us by day and wore black pajamas at night and killed us by us using billions of dollars of high tech air power and American GIs slogging through rice paddies. We realized that we were backing the weaker side in some other country's civil war and that even if we poured 1 million troops in there and stayed for 20 more years we wouldn't ultimately prevail, and anyway, Vietnaum's turning communist wasn't any threat to the US anyhoo.

Back to the war at hand:

With the peak of large oilfield discoveries occuring in the mid-to-late 1960s, and global oil demand increasing at 2% per year, and the bulk of easily available oil being in the middle east, our occupation in Iraq is obviously about having an American miltary outpost smack in the middle of the oil patch to assure our access to the black gold. President Carter declared Mid-Eastern oil to be in our vital national interest back in 1979 or so and let it be openly known that we would militarily intervene to assure our access...he created the Rapid Deployment Force, the ancestor of today's Central Command (CENTCOM). And Carter was a pacifist! Funny thing is, we are burning 16+ gallons of oil per each American Soldier per day to putter around Iraq and get picked off one-by-one and bled dry...some $12-15 Billion/month now! The US has had since 1973 (the Arab Oil Embargo as a reaction to our backing of Israel) to wean ourselves off of Mid-East oil and develop new energy sources and technologies to conserve oil...but then the oil companies wouldn't make such a big phat profit, saavy? We might as well put Exxon, Shell, Conoco, and ARAMCO sticker all over our vehicles of war, kindof like NASCAR sponsoe sticker on race cars, to show our true motives and taskmasters. And we ought to make the 7 sisters pay for this effort directly as well...go ahead, they can pass the cost on to consumers by doubling the price of gasoline to at least $6/gallon..then most Americans would finally be sacrificing something for this war over and above all those trite 'support the troops' yellow ribbon car magnets. Most people need to pull their heads out of a dark place and see the world for what it is and understand what is really going on!

in a context of creating permanent war, breeding terrorists is essential. so this war must last as long as possible. when bush elevated osama from criminal to the head of a stateless state it virtually closed the door on any thing else. empire or democracy which do you want

the born again stalinistas can't afford to be wrong no matter how many peasants die. they're only peasants...........

The comment by Noble Douglas (Posted by: Noble Douglas onJuly 11, 2007 1:40:16 PM) touches on the impact of America's Iraq policies on its standing as the "sole remaining superpower" since the fall of the Berlin Wall. I believe Mr. Douglas is right. Although there are signs that illustrate this development, this aspect of the war's consequences is more difficult to discern and is going completely unreported to the American public. Let's summarize it, for now, this way: In having invaded Iraq, America is in stunning record-tempo actually undoing its privileged position of moral authority in the world, introducing great military uncertainties into the international community of the early 21st century. Going forward, the new realities will bring indirect dollar costs with it that will dwarf the actual cost to the nation in lives and treasure spent so far.

the Bush administration is starting to exhibit the same paranoic tendencies as the Nixon presidency. how much taint all of this will leave in our national politics and for how long is a chilling thought.

Someone, a former President I think, declared that war is too important to be left up to the generals to decide on whether or not to go to war. That's why the president is commander in chief of the military. Many military officers will, and do, gladly use troops under their command as cannon fodder so they can be promoted. They won't even flinch in putting someone else's life on the line if it would improve their promotion possibilities.My brother in Vietnam found this out and wouldn't hesitate getting in an officers and tell him "that if he thought that what he was ordering was such a good idea he could do it do himself" at which time the order would not be filled without consequence. Of course if the officer got testy he had to fear being fragged by the troops. I know soldiers that do some fragging.

It is the Republican Party with its AEI[american empire institute?] and other minions, PNAC, who must bear the responsibility for the failure in Iraq. Failure is not waiting to happen, the Iraq failure is now, although all the corporations making $billions of American taxpayers monies are most certainly victors in Iraq. As long as our continued presence in Iraq the corporations will declare victory to their stockholders. The CEO's will be given million dollar bonuses of which is paid for by the American taxpayers, some of which, oblivious of the fact, will herald and trumpet our "free" enterprise system despite that it's fascism. The Republicans and their minions are implementing a soviet-fascist system of government for the USA. Proof that the Republican don't support the troops is the vote this week which was to help the troops serving in Iraq the ability to salvage their families, and the Senate Republican would have none of it and voted against the troops and their families well being. This was introduced by Senator Webb a retired military Admiral and former Secretary of Defense.

Just to set the record straight. The VietNam war ended for the US because the NVA had been supplied with the SAM 3 missle system by the Soviet Union. The Sam 3 was laser guided & heat seeking & the US had no way to defend the B 52 bombers against it. By this time the ARVN was doing the ground missions & the US was providing supplies & air support.

leave an indelebile track in the us history,that's what drive the little georges,open new market to fill up the already full pocket of his lobby american entreprise,that's the goal of big dick,after all it's the final goal of individualism, a bit of the me, myself and i.the head of USA is the caricatural mind and act drive by hyprocrisy , religious behaviour who's suppose to legitimate the modern crusade,the globalization,exporting democraty,leading the world as the"choosen nation",anyways this administration damage the position of USA as the leader of free world,everywhere in the world you can feel it,sadly neocon ideology hidejack your country ,and spread around the world,all the empire have an end sooner or later,and beware of god he always drive you to wars

Jay says the Iraq war is not a mistake, it's a crime - but clearly, it is both, and more. Not just one crime, but a huge, ongoing criminal enterprise - not just one mistake, but a whole series of mistakes compounded by more mistakes.

In a way, we should be grateful for the incompetence of these creeps, their dream of a thousand-year Reich seems to be dying...but it's sickening that so many people are dying or being maimed in the process.

The war is consting $15 billion a month? And for what? The neocons are unwilling to accept any responsibility for their total disaster and cannot now show any evidence of compromise by Iraqi political factions. Moreover, the neocon strategy now is to blame the Iraqis: "we gave them democracy and they dropped the ball." No one buys that nonsense. The longer Bush and the neocons hold on to the failure, the darker the stain.

Vietnam, Watergate, Iran Contra now as then patriotism Be a patriot back us no matter how stupid or idiotic the plan. Republicans spout values democracy, yet they are all in this for money.Special interest groups and big business. Just as the "Bushwacker" bankrupted Texas, he will continue to dig us into a hole our great great grandchildren will still be digging out of. I find it appalling that still he talks patriotism and stay the course and listen to our generals when he did not listen to them himself several months ago. Now where are the pundits that will not allow this magic act of look at the white house attorney firing and let that be center stage and not this war debacle.

The big problem is that WE are not failing. That's like someone raping you and complaining about YOU not liking sex! "What's the matter: can't get it up for good sex?"
We as citizen taxpayers were pressured into this based on false intelligence, false premises and false assumptions. Our pockets were picked by Haliburton and other cronies of the administration - off the books. WE did not decide in good faith that this occupation was necessary. WE are not losing this war - just as a coerced sex partner is not responsible for the bad sex that ensues. Don't give us this drivel GW apologists!