Obama Speaks
| Sun Nov. 16, 2008 10:11 PM PST
OBAMA SPEAKS....There's been a lot of speculation over the past few days about Barack Obama's position on issues like torture and Guantanamo, most of it based on nothing more than a couple of early appointments mixed with content-free rumors of other appointments. Tonight on 60 Minutes, though, we got more than speculation. We got the man himself making his position clear:
Kroft: There are a number of different things that you could do early pertaining to executive orders. One of them is to shutdown Guantanamo Bay. Another is to change interrogation methods that are used by U.S. troops. Are those things that you plan to take early action on?
Mr. Obama: Yes. I have said repeatedly that I intend to close Guantanamo, and I will follow through on that. I have said repeatedly that America doesn't torture. And I'm gonna make sure that we don't torture. Those are part and parcel of an effort to regain America's moral stature in the world.
Good.
Advertisement
Advertisement
Comments
I'm no expert on it, but I think there are all sorts of thorny issues surrounding this. Guantanamo is just the best-known of a whole complex of American facilities where we have secret prisoners held. here are the issues regarding rendition. And of course there's the question of what to do with the human product of this criminal system, both the prisoners (most likely to be hard-core anti-american militants by now even if they weren't at the beginning) and the jailers, (many of whom are probably guilty of international war crimes, and who have been desensitized to brutality against political prisoners).
Closing Gitmo is a welcome thing, but there will be much more to closing this hideous chapter in U.S. history.
Submitted by rilkefan (not verified) on Sun Nov. 16, 2008 10:36 PM PST.
We already don't torture - Bush says so quote unquote. I'd prefer a statement that we won't waterboard, that we won't use stress positions, that etc. etc. There's an easy way to say it too - we'll follow the Army Field Manual, or we'll enact bill # whatever it is. I'm infinitely more inclined to believe Obama uses the word "torture" in a reasonable fashion, but the language has been debased and clarity for a while would be useful.
Just the truth of implementing the Geneva Conventions of war, and its forbidding of torture for any reason, is back to the anti-fascist liberation side. That much I agree with, and the closing of Gitmo or Guantanamo is a clear break with the unmerciful illegal Bush regime. Hopefully the C.I.A. network of rendition to torture will be broken with the Obama vow to end torture for the good of all. Good beginning and much hope for a brighter future.
The "speculation" as you so airly put it Kevin, was based on the fact that John Brenann was heading up intelligence issues for the Obama transition.
I agree that Obama's statement was wonderful But to dismiss legitimate concerns as you do is PRECISELY what is wrong with some of you.
Indeed, here it comes - "concern troll" alert.
My riposte remains the same - Obama Cultist.
For some reason, I bet no one will call Josh Marshall a concern troll for his post on the Clintons' "conflict of interest."
Anyone interested in Greg Craig's "conflicts of interest." I am not, but I notice how the Cult works.
Mindful as we are that (1) Obama is not going to give away expanded powers of the Presidency just for feel-good reasons, and (2) there have been statements from the transition leadership on the subject of "torture" that are at best ambiguous and at worst conflicting , I nevertheless think he'll follow through on this, for two reasons: (1) it's just bad policy, in a whole lot of ways (bad for intelligence, bad for military morale, bad for our geopolitical image and influence), and (2) the military would like to be rid of the whole mess.
This is one of the biggest of many black eyes the Bush administration wrecking-crew gave the country, and pretty much everyone agrees that's the case. Obama has nothing to lose by reversing it, publicly and soon.
As to the legal status of the Guantanamo detainees, something will be worked out. The legal system is very well-evolved and adaptible, and the US is still very rich. The problem will be dealt with.
And as to the clandestine world, it will go back to being clandestine. These techniques have always been used, and will continue to be used, in secret. The difference is, in civilized countries, they are illegal, and they are punished when they come to light, which in turn heavily discourages their use. That they continue to be used at all is evil, and the hypocrisy compounds it, but it's still a lot better than their overt (and inevitably growing) use.
Utilitarian ethics for a utilitarian world. Watcha gonna do?
Give the guy a chance. He's a professor of constitutional law; one of his most significant legislative achievements in Illinois was mandating the videotaping of police interrogations, thus preventing any abuse of prisoners; and for the cynics, he was elected by the 52% of the population that thinks torture is bad, not the 40+% that thinks it's fine if they're foreigners.
The mess is going to take a little while to untangle. But I'm damn sure he's going to do it.
Armando: Calling people Obama cultists is not nice. Does that make you a loser then since your candidate lost? You just can get over the fact that you candidate in the primary lost and you've been wrong on all your predictions and analyses since then. Why should anybody take you seriously now?
God speaks! On behalf of his begotten son Obama?
In case you missed it God (which puts your omniscience into question) I was called a concern troll.
Ah wait, this is the New Testament God, turn the other cheek. But not exactly, "loser?" Very un-Godlike of you.
Armando: You started it by writing "...PRECISELY what is wrong with some of you."
There is nothing wrong with legitimate criticism but there is need for the 'some of you' type talk. In any case, here is my other cheek for you to do as you please:)
Post new comment
MoJo Comments: Send Us Your Feedback
We changed our spam software to better filter comments. Should you encounter any issues, please let us know.
