SOFA Approved
| Thu Nov. 27, 2008 8:26 AM PST
SOFA APPROVED....In the neverending soap opera that is Iraq, the SOFA agreement has finally passed. Sort of:
Iraqi lawmakers today approved a pact allowing U.S. forces to stay in the country through 2011 after winning support from skeptics by promising a public referendum on the plan.
Of the 198 parliamentarians attending today's session, more than 140 held up their hands in favor of the Status of Forces Agreement, or SOFA....The lawmakers separately approved a resolution calling for a referendum in July 2009, during which the public will get to endorse, reject, or demand amendments to the SOFA. The referendum was the key demand of Sunni Muslim legislators who had refused to join the parliament's ruling Shiite and Kurdish blocs in approving SOFA without the referendum promise.
So, once again, we don't have a firm approval for withdrawal. The Iraqi public has a longstanding desire for American troops to leave, which suggests the SOFA will be approved, but a lot can happen in six months. If I had to bet, I'd say it passes in July, but I sure wouldn't bet the farm on it.
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Comments
Didn't he tell all you liberals that he would take the troops out day 1???
Ames, dear Ames?put down the crack pipe and slowly back away.
In a word, No! If you can show me a cite where, then candidate, Obama made such a claim I will go out and buy a turkey to eat and I hate turkey.
Safe bet cuz you can't. Delusional, stupid, or a liar ? which is it, monkey boy?
Didn't he tell all you liberals that he would take the troops out day 1???
Ames, dear Ames?put down the crack pipe and slowly back away.
In a word, No! If you can show me a cite where, then candidate, Obama made such a claim I will go out and buy a turkey to eat and I hate turkey.
Safe bet cuz you can't. Delusional, stupid, or a liar ? which is it, monkey boy?
Submitted by Ames Tiedeman (not verified) on Thu Nov. 27, 2008 8:43 AM PST.
Why are you not doing articles on the fact that Obama has stopped talking about taking our troops out of Iraq. Just today the Iraqi Government voted to keep US troops until 2012. Didn't Obama promise change? Didn't he tell all you liberals that he would take the troops out day 1???
Change? What does that mean? You all were LIED to. And the liberal media never asked Obama a damn question!!!! Fools!
Huh? I would think the Iraqi public's "longstanding desire for American troops to leave" would mean that if the SOFA was put to a referendum in '09, it would likely be rejected. The SOFA is widely seen as a fig leaf for a continued occupation, not some prudent measure for a "responsible withdrawal" as it's typically framed in the US.
Ames Tiedeman: I remember reading a Mother Jones article a few months ago analyzing the SOFA, which is really a diplomatic treaty (requiring Congress approval) disguising itself as a boring and routine Status of Forces Agreement (which does not). The conclusion was basically Bush the lame duck is taking control of the withdrawal issue out of the hands of his successor.
Didn't he tell all you liberals that he would take the troops out day 1???
Ames, dear Ames put down the crack pipe and slowly back away.
In a word, No! If you can show me a cite where, then candidate, Obama made such a claim I will go out and buy a turkey to eat and I hate turkey.
Safe bet cuz you can't. Delusional, stupid, or a liar which is it, monkey boy?
Didn't he tell all you liberals that he would take the troops out day 1???
No:
Immediately upon taking office, Obama will give his Secretary of Defense and military commanders a new mission in Iraq: successfully ending the war. The removal of our troops will be responsible and phased.
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Obama was very consistent on this issue.
Look at the bright side-The American Oil Companies have control of Iraq's Oil output so the mission at long last is a "Success!" Just between us out of the loop folks, I don't think the Agreement will mean a hoot to Obama and if he IS cutting the Federal Budget line by line, you can bet the massive dose of cash going into Iraq will be cut to a controllable amount Treaty or no Treaty. Troop deployments will also come under intense scrutiny and the Pentagon won't like that either!
The Wall Street Journal indicates that (i) the Iraqi government expects to request U.S. troops to remain past the deadline specified in the SOFA and (ii) the referendum on the SOFA may never happen (apparently, other promised referenda have not occurred).
Mind you, I'm not saying that Iraqi politics or government is murkier or more dysfunctional than American politics and government.
Enquiring minds want to know:
Is there really CHANGE under the cushions of the SOFA?
Well yes. When Obama promised to pull combat troops out of Iraq within 16 months but perhaps leave as many as 30,000 residual troops he was suggesting something that was operationally very like the new SOFA: combat troops off the front lines in Iraqi cities and towns with remaining forces for the most part situated on secure bases for some period of time. The new agreement is if anything an acceleration of the Obama plan, under it most combat forces will be effectively out of harms way within six months of his inaugeration (not sixteen) and there will not be any residual troops at all after three years. People who posit this as Bush somehow hamstringing Obama simply haven't thought this one through, instead Bush surrendered on terms that Obama could never have gotten away with. While there seems to be nothing in the agreement to keep commanders from keeping the bulk of the 140,000 soldiers and marines in country on those secured bases there can be little doubt that once disengaged from actual operations the pressure will be on to move combat brigades out of Iraq to refit and/or redeploy. The practical effect of the SOFA is likely to be most American combat forces out of Iraq within a year of leaving the front lines with some support forces left for up to eighteen more months. Which is close enough to the Obama plan as to not be worth distinguishing.
As to the referendum. If it happens it will come AFTER US forces are removed from Iraqi cities and towns and its defeat would leave no legal grounds for continued US presense at all which if anything would argue for an even accelerated departure of those remaining troops. The implied notion that defeat of the referendum gives the warmongers some sort of out is ridiculous, the argument in Iraq seems much like the argument here: do you want US troops out soon? or yesterday? With opponents of the SOFA largely drawn from the ranks of the yesterday people. Given that this from Kevin doesn't make a lot of sense:
"So, once again, we don't have a firm approval for withdrawal. The Iraqi public has a longstanding desire for American troops to leave, which suggests the SOFA will be approved, but a lot can happen in six months. If I had to bet, I'd say it passes in July, but I sure wouldn't bet the farm on it."
The only organized group openly opposing the SOFA are the Sadrists who want to have Americans leave earlier. I suppose there is some theoretical scenario that would have the SOFA disapproved and then have a new agreement drafted that would redeploy already withdrawn US combat troops BACK to the front lines but I don't see that as realistically possible given Iraqi, American and certainly Obama Administration-elect desires to get this C-F over as soon as possible.
Which is to say that unless I am totally mis-reading my daily dose of Juan Cole the practical effect of a 'No' vote on the referendum is to hasten American departure rather than prolong it. Am I missing something?
MY DEAR DELUSIONAL "Ames Tiedeman"!
The days of just screaming out whatever unfactual right-wing propaganda(bald-faced lies)that you want to and expecting anybody intelligent with an internet connection to not break-out in laughter are OVER!
There is this amazing new-fangled thing-a-ma-bob called "GOOGLE" that cuts right through the crapolla now. If you actually took the time to do some research..........you would find that ALL of your wild-eyed rantings are FALSE. So before you raise your voice make at least a small effort to reinforce your arguement by backing-up your bullshot with some honest facts from a reputable source.
Just for the record, here is the ACTUAL Iraq policy put forth by Obama in a campaign speech. And it only took a few mouse clicks to aquire it.
His four-point strategy for Iraq before a packed crowd at Ashton University in Clinton, Iowa. It is comprised of: 1) Commencing in an immediate withdrawal of one or two brigades (3,500 or 7,000 troops) a month; 2) a pressing effort for political stability, with aid from a United Nations constitutional convention; 3) increased regional diplomacy, especially with leaders of Syria and Iran; and 4) humanitarian intervention and financial aid to help stem the effects of current and future sectarian violence.
Not even the most rabid of war-mongering Chicken Hawks would believe that EVERY soldier could be removed on the first day, or the first month, or the first year. It defies all reason and logic. Duh!
There you go Sparky! It seems that the only lying is being done by yourself..............to yourself.
BE A SUCKER FOR RIGHT-WING LIERS................VOTE REPUBLICAN!
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