Team of Rivals?

Submitted by raft (not verified) on Wed Nov. 19, 2008 12:16 PM PST.

re: bruce: yes. Obama's been spinning the Team Of Rivals for two years now. he brings it up in public every chance he gets. Public is the key word there--this is a meme for popular consumption only.

if you look at how obama actually ran his campaign and now his transition/presidency, "team of rivals" isn't exactly the way you'd describe it. Obama understands the difference between pop history and real-world executive management. which is why he's POTUS and people like Hillary Clinton and John McCain are not.

From the WashPost 03/06/08: "One of Clinton's favorite books is "Team of Rivals," Doris Kearns Goodwin's account of Abraham Lincoln's Cabinet, and she assembled her own team of advisers knowing their mutual enmity in the belief that good ideas come from vigorous discussion. But while many campaigns are beset by backbiting and power struggles, dozens of interviews indicate that the internal problems endured by the Clinton team have been especially corrosive...

A more explosive example of the stress came a few days later. Phil Singer, the campaign's deputy communications director, emerged from a meeting on Feb. 11 and without explanation started angrily cursing the war room. "[Expletive] all of you," he shouted, according to a witness, then stormed out and did not return for several days... At one point, [Penn] and Ickes, who have been battling each other within the Clinton orbit for a dozen years, lost their tempers during a conference call, according to two participants. "[Expletive] you!" Ickes shouted. "[Expletive] you!" Penn replied. "[Expletive] you!" Ickes shouted again."

Compare this to:
Rolling Stone 07/10/08: "Obama's top advisers outmaneuvered Hillary Clinton's organization with no leaks, no nasty infighting and virtually no public credit for their efforts... Obama's capacity to listen, be decisive and delegate sets a tone that permeates the campaign, much to the relief of staffers who survived the Gore and Kerry campaigns. "People know that when they make their pitch as to what they think the strategy should be, that Plouffe and Axelrod are taking it all in," says one staffer. "There's not this kind of constant sniping attempt to push your agenda through. There's this trust that we all know our pieces. Other campaigns waste so much time on second-guessing and wondering what's really gonna happen ? who's really in charge. There's none of that around here."

"That's because, ultimately, the buck stops with Obama. "Barack has a fine manner of being personally very close to his staff," says Jordan, who managed the Kerry campaign and is close with several members of Obama's inner circle. "But there's always an invisible but real line there. The authority he exerts is so natural and so real and so unmanufactured that nobody ever forgets ? even on the plane late at night when they're feeding each other shit ? who the boss is."

Have a little faith guys. Obama has got this.

Submitted by raft (not verified) on Wed Nov. 19, 2008 12:16 PM PST.

re: bruce: yes. Obama's been spinning the Team Of Rivals for two years now. he brings it up in public every chance he gets. Public is the key word there--this is a meme for popular consumption only.

if you look at how obama actually ran his campaign and now his transition/presidency, "team of rivals" isn't exactly the way you'd describe it. Obama understands the difference between pop history and real-world executive management. which is why he's POTUS and people like Hillary Clinton and John McCain are not.

From the WashPost 03/06/08: "One of Clinton's favorite books is "Team of Rivals," Doris Kearns Goodwin's account of Abraham Lincoln's Cabinet, and she assembled her own team of advisers knowing their mutual enmity in the belief that good ideas come from vigorous discussion. But while many campaigns are beset by backbiting and power struggles, dozens of interviews indicate that the internal problems endured by the Clinton team have been especially corrosive...

A more explosive example of the stress came a few days later. Phil Singer, the campaign's deputy communications director, emerged from a meeting on Feb. 11 and without explanation started angrily cursing the war room. "[Expletive] all of you," he shouted, according to a witness, then stormed out and did not return for several days... At one point, [Penn] and Ickes, who have been battling each other within the Clinton orbit for a dozen years, lost their tempers during a conference call, according to two participants. "[Expletive] you!" Ickes shouted. "[Expletive] you!" Penn replied. "[Expletive] you!" Ickes shouted again."

Compare this to:
Rolling Stone 07/10/08: "Obama's top advisers outmaneuvered Hillary Clinton's organization with no leaks, no nasty infighting and virtually no public credit for their efforts... Obama's capacity to listen, be decisive and delegate sets a tone that permeates the campaign, much to the relief of staffers who survived the Gore and Kerry campaigns. "People know that when they make their pitch as to what they think the strategy should be, that Plouffe and Axelrod are taking it all in," says one staffer. "There's not this kind of constant sniping attempt to push your agenda through. There's this trust that we all know our pieces. Other campaigns waste so much time on second-guessing and wondering what's really gonna happen ? who's really in charge. There's none of that around here."

"That's because, ultimately, the buck stops with Obama. "Barack has a fine manner of being personally very close to his staff," says Jordan, who managed the Kerry campaign and is close with several members of Obama's inner circle. "But there's always an invisible but real line there. The authority he exerts is so natural and so real and so unmanufactured that nobody ever forgets ? even on the plane late at night when they're feeding each other shit ? who the boss is."

Have a little faith guys. Obama has got this.

Submitted by Dave C (not verified) on Wed Nov. 19, 2008 10:53 AM PST.

I think those spreading the meme are including Joe Biden as "rival" on O's team.

still only a team of two, but it's early

Submitted by troglodyte (not verified) on Wed Nov. 19, 2008 10:53 AM PST.

It also covers the fact that the candidate of "change" is drawing his cabinet from the ranks of the *experienced* -- this gambit is not really as cover-up as it might be, because the Pres (Obama) is the person who embodies change -- he will be choosing among the alternatives, not simply handing off the policy portfolios.

Submitted by Quaker in a Basement (not verified) on Wed Nov. 19, 2008 11:03 AM PST.

Rivals, shmivals.

Just give us a dozen people who are competent and this administration will stand head and shoulders above its predecessor.

Submitted by Stella G (not verified) on Wed Nov. 19, 2008 11:19 AM PST.

Former gym rat? I don't think the guy has missed a workout since election day.

Submitted by bruce (not verified) on Wed Nov. 19, 2008 11:45 AM PST.

But can we really credit this meme to Obama? Seems to me the boneheads in the MSM cranked this one up in the privacy of their own uncluttered brains; of course, Obama's team was smart enough not to knock it down..

Submitted by sarah (not verified) on Wed Nov. 19, 2008 11:54 AM PST.

How many appointments has he made yet? Hardly any. It's been two weeks since the election. What do you expect, Stephens as Secretary of Energy announced today to satisfy your meme? Yeesh. I'm sure he's in talks with Republicans and even though they might want the position I doubt they're making the media circuit to talk themselves up. Team of Rivals doesn't necessarily mean team of Republicans or antagonistic democrats? There are a lot of complicated problems. If he can get a lot of smart people with different views to butt heads I think that constitutes.

Submitted by Guscat (not verified) on Wed Nov. 19, 2008 12:00 PM PST.

I haven't read the book, but I think that Goodwin, as usual, misinterprets history through her own muddled gaze. it seems to me that back in the 19th Century cabinet politics was a little more like parliamentary politics in which people often put powerful people in their cabinet. Remember, these positions were in many ways more powerful in the 19th century than they are today, especially in the pre-civil service era when one could give out a large number of jobs to supporters.

Submitted by raft (not verified) on Wed Nov. 19, 2008 12:16 PM PST.

re: bruce: yes. Obama's been spinning the Team Of Rivals for two years now. he brings it up in public every chance he gets. Public is the key word there--this is a meme for popular consumption only.

if you look at how obama actually ran his campaign and now his transition/presidency, "team of rivals" isn't exactly the way you'd describe it. Obama understands the difference between pop history and real-world executive management. which is why he's POTUS and people like Hillary Clinton and John McCain are not.

From the WashPost 03/06/08: "One of Clinton's favorite books is "Team of Rivals," Doris Kearns Goodwin's account of Abraham Lincoln's Cabinet, and she assembled her own team of advisers knowing their mutual enmity in the belief that good ideas come from vigorous discussion. But while many campaigns are beset by backbiting and power struggles, dozens of interviews indicate that the internal problems endured by the Clinton team have been especially corrosive...

A more explosive example of the stress came a few days later. Phil Singer, the campaign's deputy communications director, emerged from a meeting on Feb. 11 and without explanation started angrily cursing the war room. "[Expletive] all of you," he shouted, according to a witness, then stormed out and did not return for several days... At one point, [Penn] and Ickes, who have been battling each other within the Clinton orbit for a dozen years, lost their tempers during a conference call, according to two participants. "[Expletive] you!" Ickes shouted. "[Expletive] you!" Penn replied. "[Expletive] you!" Ickes shouted again."

Compare this to:
Rolling Stone 07/10/08: "Obama's top advisers outmaneuvered Hillary Clinton's organization with no leaks, no nasty infighting and virtually no public credit for their efforts... Obama's capacity to listen, be decisive and delegate sets a tone that permeates the campaign, much to the relief of staffers who survived the Gore and Kerry campaigns. "People know that when they make their pitch as to what they think the strategy should be, that Plouffe and Axelrod are taking it all in," says one staffer. "There's not this kind of constant sniping attempt to push your agenda through. There's this trust that we all know our pieces. Other campaigns waste so much time on second-guessing and wondering what's really gonna happen who's really in charge. There's none of that around here."

"That's because, ultimately, the buck stops with Obama. "Barack has a fine manner of being personally very close to his staff," says Jordan, who managed the Kerry campaign and is close with several members of Obama's inner circle. "But there's always an invisible but real line there. The authority he exerts is so natural and so real and so unmanufactured that nobody ever forgets even on the plane late at night when they're feeding each other shit who the boss is."

Have a little faith guys. Obama has got this.

Submitted by PHB (not verified) on Wed Nov. 19, 2008 1:39 PM PST.

Choosing Hillary allows Obama to gain all the bipartisan cred that he would gain from appointing a Republican without having a Republican in the Cabinet wasting space.

Submitted by Jack Keefe (not verified) on Wed Nov. 19, 2008 2:13 PM PST.

in the 19th Century cabinet politics was a little more like parliamentary politics in which people often put powerful people in their cabinet

Yes, and specifically, given the American electoral system and the "spoils system," 19th century Cabinets were selected to placate people who had influence in crucial state party organizations (like Simon Cameron of Pennsylvania or William Seward of New York in Lincoln's cabinet). Postmaster General was a key office since it held the keys to most of the federal patronage. Obama's political considerations when choosing a Cabinet are nothing like Lincoln's. To say nothing of the fact that so much Executive policy has been made outside of the Cabinet since the early-to-mid 20th Century. Lincoln's Cabinet, by contrast, was the Executive Branch; in the White House proper, he only had a few private secretaries to work with.

Submitted by Julene (not verified) on Wed Nov. 19, 2008 2:16 PM PST.

Yes, let's all continue to be amazed by a marketing campaign. I prefer my change in policy, not advertising.

Submitted by Mr. Independent (not verified) on Wed Nov. 19, 2008 2:41 PM PST.

If I was a Historically Elected and First Black President of the United States, I would surround myself with the very best people I could get and really wouldn't care which Party they belonged to as long as they were both trustworthy and superlatively competent....That seems to be what Obama is doing as well as mending fences and preparing for a very tough Presidency!

Submitted by wileycat (not verified) on Wed Nov. 19, 2008 2:57 PM PST.

Flattering allusions re: Lincoln and Civil War don't play well in the South. They're still fighting the "War of Northern Aggression" down here, and the scariest folks around are the ones muttering words like "assassination", "traitor", and "uppity" n-word. Add a little more Palin and turn back the clock 145 years.
I worry a lot about this...too many nutcases carrying guns makes me very nervous.

Submitted by bruce (not verified) on Wed Nov. 19, 2008 2:58 PM PST.

rath, your quotes suggest that hillary pushed the "team of rivals" idea to slide past all their backbiting, but not that obama did. whatever...

Submitted by sure (not verified) on Wed Nov. 19, 2008 4:14 PM PST.

Frankly I prefer Aasif Kearns Goodwin Mandvi. At least his stuff is original.

Only naifs equate campaigning with governing. Let's see what happens when the new Team Obama suffers the first big setback.

Submitted by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle (not verified) on Wed Nov. 19, 2008 5:41 PM PST.

Bruce:
Bingo!! It is used to help sell Kearns Goodwin's book. Obama looks smart so far running with it.

Submitted by Brian J (not verified) on Wed Nov. 19, 2008 10:07 PM PST.

The only problem is, if he takes too many steps in the direction of making this seem like an official way of governing, then people on the right who complain that he is actually trying to actually govern like this might make their case seem more believable. I'm thinking of the few minutes that I saw of Jonah Goldberg and Sean Hannity talking about this last night. Then again, aren't these clowns going to complain about Obama no matter what he does?

If nothing else, Doris Kearns Goodwin has to be walking around with a big, big smile on her face. It seems like any time Obama's being discussed, her book gets a plug.

Submitted by Sammler (not verified) on Thu Nov. 20, 2008 12:32 AM PST.

Mr. Drum: You have gotten too much into the habit of being a cheap date for Mr. Obama. The real topic of your post is not that Mr. Obama has done anything particularly intelligent, but that his habitual supporters have again managed to interpret his actions in the most favorable light.

Submitted by Shag from Brookline (not verified) on Thu Nov. 20, 2008 5:27 AM PST.

Too many modern day "historians" (a word loosely used in this day and age) promote their books with "sound bites." Team of Rivals is repeated and repeated by pundits in all forms of the media ad nauseum, most of whom have probably not read Goodwin's book. Some challenges to her Team of Rivals have been surfacing and most likely there will be more. She promotes her book with her appearances on TV where the host and other guests pick up on Team of Rivals without challenging her theme. This is good for sales but perhaps not for searching out the truth.