Listening to the Right

| Sat Apr. 4, 2009 11:03 AM PDT
Charles Blow has been listening to talk radio:

Lately I’ve been consuming as much conservative media as possible (interspersed with shots of Pepto-Bismol) to get a better sense of the mind and mood of the right. My read: They’re apocalyptic. They feel isolated, angry, betrayed and besieged.

Well, sure, though this is hardly unusual.  A sense of besiegement has been the right's stock in trade for as long as I've been alive.

But there is something different about their tone these days, and I can't quite put my finger on exactly what it is.  My tentative take is that there's an inchoate quality to their fears that's new.  In the past they were fighting against specific things: communism, hippies, Bill Clinton, Islamists, abortion, etc.  But communism is dead, the hippies are grown up, Clinton is off doing good works in Africa, al-Qaeda is pretty quiet, and it's pretty obvious that the culture wars have been lost. They're doing their best to slot Obama into the old Clinton/Gore role, but he just doesn't fit and the media isn't playing along the way they did in the 90s.  So they're stuck.  Who, exactly, is their enemy these days?

I'm not sure they know themselves.  But maybe that makes it worse.  A nuclear-armed USSR may be scary, but at least it's something you can identify.  These days that's a lot harder.  Like a horror movie where you're surrounded on all sides by something you can never quite make out, I guess it seems to them like there's something horrible going on, but it's something so insidious that they're only allowed to catch occasional foggy glimpses of it.  Budget deficits?  Healthcare reform? Top marginal tax rates going back to 39.6%? Negotiations with Iran?  Those aren't things that normally stir the blood.  But what if they're really just stalking horses for something far more malign?

I dunno.  Maybe that's the reason for the apocalyptic tone.  The actual policies that liberals are pursuing aren't that big a deal even by right-wing standards, but if besiegement is your stock in trade then that only means there must be something else going on that you're not being allowed to see.  Because there has to be something, doesn't there?

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Comments

Supreme Court

Personally, I think it's mostly the loss of their shot to tip the court balance. They were one more new Justice away from a conservative majority. That opportunity is gone.

I just hope that we, and

I just hope that we, and more importantly the media, don't fall into the trap of giving these nut jobs a stage. It's one thing to publicize insanity, it's another to provide legitimacy BY publicizing. Kevin, you say that it is different than the Clinton years...I'm not so sure. The early years of the Clinton administration, remember, were filled with the FBI storming several places, accusations that the Clintons allowed drug running, the Oklahoma bombing, etc. This was all stuff encouraged by right wing conservatives, covered by the press, and let's face it, IT WORKED! My thinking is that right now the only difference with the Clinton years is that progressives and democrats can point directly at W's tenure as an unmitigated disaster. As soon as that is forgotten, then we are right back to the Clinton years where threats of violence and insane accusations are framed as manly independent thinking.

This is just what they do.

This is just what they do. They don't have to be against anything in particular. They just want to make noise and not sense.

It's like an amusement park

It's like an amusement park ride. People like to be scared--they even pay for it.

It may look crazy, but it

It may look crazy, but it isn't, at least on a meta level. The Right is essentially a machine for serving the interests of a very rich oligarchy, something it has done very well at for decades. The slavering hordes of wingnuttia are just tools, a force of electoral shock troops who have provided a base of votes for policies that benefit the richest elites. Having the hordes frothing at some imagined outrage is part of the design; it keeps them distracted from noticing how their favored leaders keep screwing them. Currently it's unclear what line of attack will work against Obama, but the best hope is that if he can be prevented from dealing effectively with the leftover economic catastrophe, the right can gin up its hordes and sweep to another narrow electoral victory. In the meantime nativist populist anger needs to be kept heated to a slow boil, ready to be stoked up to full froth when the appropriate opportunity presents itself. So, we'll see a continuing series of non sequitur imbroglios meant to keep a certain amount of heat on.

2001-06 Changed The Right

The 1990s were different because there was a utopian hope on the Right. They felt like all they needed to do was to take over the White House and Congress, and everything would be better. They loved the Reagan years, and they could blame its imperfections on the House of Representatives, which was strongly Democratic during the 1980s. Now, their dream has died. They got what they wanted in the elections of 2000, 2002, and 2004, but they didn't get the results they wanted. For one thing, it turns out that the Republican Party isn't as Conservative on certain issues as the people who made pet causes out of those issues thought they were--we never got a ban on abortions or tort reform or a shrinking government. For another thing, we finally got the absolute proof of what many people had suspected for a long time--Republican office holders are complete buffoons who should never be given any power whatsoever. Now, their dream is gone. They can complain all they want to about Obama, Pelosi, and Reid, and we all know that they will continue to do so even after those people are dead, but they can no longer state that if only their people were in power we could have all the things we dreamed of. They certainly can no longer claim that Republicans make us safe, cause 5% annual growth, and balance budgets, which is what they used to claim during the 1990s, silly as those claims were even then. Beware of people whose dreams have died. They have nothing left to lose and should be considered armed and dangerous. I wish that they would shrivel up like a raisin in the sun, but they don't heed my wishes.

Good point

The closest analogy on the political left would be the defeat of George McGovern in 1972. During the 1960's many on the left believed they could transform the world. Since then, being a liberal has meant working for small, incremental gains in specific areas, while seeking to limit the damage that conservatives could do in others. The emotional rewards that come working for an utopian dream were no longer there.

Conservatives have run out

Conservatives have run out of big things to be against. In order to maintain the passion of their base they have to blow the small things they are against into earth shattering apocalyptic threats. So... Islamic terrorism can't be a doomed-to-fail dead end strategy - it has to be a clash of civilizations that threatens to turn the US into an Islamic republic. Gay marriage can't be a newish social experiment that we should move cautiously on - it has to be a plague that will destroy the social order. Sensible look-both-ways-before-you-cross-the-street conservatism just doesn't get enough people to the polls to be viable.

Social experiment?

One we should move cautiously on? Give me a break. Equal rights are not a social experiment and should never be "moved cautiously" on. Good God.

I think...

He's speaking through a conservative lens here, not from his own beliefs.

" and should never be "moved

" and should never be "moved cautiously" on. " If you want it to succed and not be overturned within a year or two then yes move cautiously. California the most liberal state in the country had prop eight pass annuling the gay marriages. Gay people were shocked at how prop eight had managed to pass. When the ads for prop eight were being shown gay organizations were dismissive and took far too long to respond. They were comfy instead of being cautious that there would be a huge organized backlash against them. So yes move cautiously and slowly. The war against the Religious Reich is a war remember you have to be strategic and tactical preparing for a long war against an entrenched foe that feels like it has nothing to lose. Do not get all excited for some Market Garden plan or Infantry Airdrop into Baghdad Airport like Cheney and Rumsfield were wanting.

Total defeat on the horizon

But there is something different about their tone these days, and I can't quite put my finger on exactly what it is. They've lost power, they've lost on a lot of specific issues, and if the Obama and/or the Conservadems don't seize defeat from the jaws of victory, they will loose on health care and thus the fundamental role of the state in society. They are desperate.

Is it really so different

Is it really so different from the Clinton hatred after 1992? I mean,that seemed pretty random and unhinged at the time as well. Indeed, I suspect the whole point of the current Glen Beck style unfocused paranoia is that they think they can use over-the-top Obamaphobia to recreate 1994. I doubt it will work, 2010 isn't 1994 for any number of reasons, but when your party goes down in flames in two consecutive elections, the natural impulse is to try and recreate what worked the last time you successfully regained power after being down and out.

One of the reasons that

One of the reasons that Clinton was considered to have lost in 1994 was trying to get gays in the military. That gave the Republicans one clear target they pounce on. Clinton's comprise which did allow gays to serve provided they didn't disclose they were gay upon being asked which also something that the military couldn't do halted the complete collapse of the Clinton white House. Oh btw if gays in the military were to actually read the act they would know that if they were asked they have to report the officer as violating the act. They can refuse to answer and they wouldn't be dismissed. Instead they do reply they are gay and guess what the hell happens they get kicked out and the officer who violated the act isn't punished but understands that since these gays are too stupid to read the act which allows them to serve he can kick out as many gays as he wants by proclaiming they the gays not the Christian conservative officer violated the DADT act. Obama is smart to act slow on DADT it doesn't give the Republicans and others a target to focus on. Without the focus the Republicans are still unhinged but also unorganized and willing to turn on each for a struggle for power and purpose. Without DADT being moved on the Social Conservative Republicans cannot be motivated by the Fiscal Conservative Republicans. Obama doesn't waste any political capital and has strength to act on many other matters that will win him more political capital to do more things. DADT in all honesty should be the last thing of his first term.

Inchoate Republican anger

I see three possible reasons for the vagueness of their anger. The first is that the people whose job it is to be angry -- the Rush Limbaughs and Glenn Becks -- don't have anything big enough to latch onto, so they just rage against Obama and the Democrats generally. For example, after Bush, and in the middle of a recession/depression, massive government spending is neither new, uniquely liberal, or necessarily unwelcome by their audiences. So that alone isn't enough to work their audiences into a frenzy. The second possibility is that, for some of them, what they're really frightened of are things they can't state in polite company -- i.e., that Obama is a Communist / Socialist / Muslim / Black Nationalist / Antichrist. Take, for example, Rep. Bachmann and Glenn Beck's ravings about Obama's support for a "global currency." Putting aside the inaccuracy of the charge, the subtext for their rantings is either that (1) Obama is going to put the United States under the control of the United Nations or (2) Obama is, or is a pawn of, the Antichrist. But they're unwilling to out themselves as bigots, Birchers, or dispensationalists, so they remain vague. The third possibility is that, after the failures of the Bush administration and the Republicans in Congress, the only way they can get people to return to the Republican Party is to convince them that the Democratic Party is going to do something worse than getting us into unnecessary wars, failing to protect our food supply, letting Wall Street run amok, politicizing the Justice Department, betraying our ideals, etc. That pretty much just leaves threats of an end to our national sovereignty or the apocalypse, doesn't it?

when big-joke conservatism fails to amuse

So many elements get together in this, but perhaps the one most basic thing is, they're not smart. And they resent it. Mark Twain said, "What people don't know, they suspect." People with a learning disability aren't going to 'get' anything, so they retreat into taking all seriousness as a joke and if they can't do that they lash out.

The result of the righty ranting...

Police: 3 officers killed in Pa. shooting Suspect, wearing bulletproof vest, reportedly was ‘lying in wait’ http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30043893/ But Malkin, Beck, Rush, et al won't loose a seconds sleep over those 3 dead cops.

militant primitivism

Another point is they are not uneducated. They are seriously educated in being 'disturbed' and flipped out by things. It's militant primitivism.

goose-stepping parrots

Also conservatives will always insist the Democratic and Republican parties are really just the same thing, two brands of the same conspiracy. So, having heard a lot from the Left about how evil Republicans are, when now they are in the opposition, they blithely begin mimmicking what they have heard of themselves the last eight years. Except it a) actually is true of them and b) when these people get the notion something must be done they leap to the nearest hysterical conclusion c) proving it is actually true of them.

The Ants Are Restless

Reino & jimbob voice my thoughts. The ant hill just got kicked and the ants are confused and unorganized tumbling out every which-way. The smarter Replugs I talk to remind me of a plot device that often popped on Star Trek: the melting down computer that randomly repeats parts of its program as it self destructs, eg. “Cut taxes, government too big, socialized….” They cap it off by attacking some real of imagined slight committed by the Obamas. “And she touched Queen!!”

Manipulating Anxious Authoritarian Followers

About twenty five percent of any human population are Authoritarian followers, and authoritarian followers have an innate sense of anxiety. It comes from within. They always feel that something is wrong and something bad is happening. For obvious reasons certain religions attract authoritarian followers. The Republican party, since 1974 or so, has also courted them as a base. But the problem Rush and the other GOP bigwigs have is 25% is not enough for a majority, and at the moment they are having trouble finding anything tangible and plausible enough to attract more people to their base. The wingnuts, the authoritarian followers, have no problem literally thinking Obama is the anti-Christ, but for the rest of us that ideas is so crazy we won't buy it, so Rush is having trouble finding a focus for his base to fear that doesn't sound too crazy to the rest of us. I don't pity Rush too much though, because the GOP has a lot of money paying a lot of smart people in think tanks to come up with some plausible sounding BS. It will take a little time but I'm sure they will come up with something. I suspect it will be something like the 'Chinese' that Rush demonizes, although they might have too much power and he'll have to go with Muslims. Tripp

It's not even past.

Not only am I unsure that the behavior of the right is much different than during the Clinton years, it doesn't seem much different than the W years, only they switched from accusing the center to left that we hated Bush to directly hating the new administration.

fear works

how else to explain how they've been able to get so many people to vote against their own interests for so long?

I never thought I'd be

I never thought I'd be nostalgic for the Cold War years. The red menace did give the wingnuts something to focus on.

Kevin, I'm only 42, so you

Kevin, I'm only 42, so you have a longer personal time frame for reflection, but I respectfully disagree from where I sit. The ranting I heard from John Bircher-types growing up in Idaho in the 1970s sounded pretty much the same as what we are hearing from AM radio and Faux News today. They didn't like the "Soviets" back then, but they were just as agitaged over illegal immigrats, Arabs, European weakness, the UN and "world government" as they are now. "Soviets" and "the welfare state" have mostly dropped off the list of existential threats to the Union (though there are still lots of dark references to the "Russians," which is what they usually called them anyway), and gay marriage has been added to the list, but the tenor remains pretty much the same as it has for a long time. The biggest difference I see is that before Limbaugh became nationally syndicated in in the late 80s/early 90s, there were only a few oddball cranks with a national platform for this bile (e.g. Paul Harvey). Limbaugh's appearance on the national scene was a big change, and there has been a profusion of imitators since then that have turned up the volume a lot. But the music is pretty much the same.

I think the anger is easily

I think the anger is easily understood. It's a combination of two (related) things: - The God that Failed. For these people, The Republican agenda (invade the rest of the world, tax cuts, deregulation, etc) wasn't just pragmatic policy, the result of a considered look at the various alternatives, picking the idea that looked like it would work best. These ideas were religion, they HAD to be true, and these guys believed in them absolutely. And they didn't work out too well, did they? Their failure isn't just minor, it is absolute and catastrophic. Sure, they'll keep up the pretense of belief, but they must feel somewhat like the followers of William Miller on October 23, 1844, the day after Jesus didn't in fact return to Earth. And, of course, just like always happens in these situations, they're not going to blame themselves for their stupidity. No, the ideas were sabotaged, they were stabbed in the back, the ideas were not implemented aggressively enough, the whole panoply of insanity we've seen so often, from Germany after WW1 to the US after Vietnam, to Communism at various time, whether it's Westerners who refuse to believe in the truth about Stalin, to the diehards weeping in 1989. - The manifest unfairness of what is happening right now. We all know that what is happening right now in the US is absolutely shameful and ridiculously unfair. Everything we hear about the various bailouts just makes the unfairness that much more obvious. And we see absolutely nothing being done to balance the scales of fairness in terms of, for example, restructuring the tax code. If this giveaway makes people like me furious, imagine what it does to a GOP true believer. On the one hand they are human, and respond to unfair situations like anyone; on the other hand, they have believed their whole lives that these people making billions somehow deserved and earned their money. It must be tearing them up inside to have it rubbed in their face so so egregiously just what dupes they were to believe all this crap about meritocracy, the rich earning their wealth, the system is fair, etc etc. And, of course, once again they're going to lash out in anger --- but at who --- hence the inchoate rage.

Drum is right

I listen to a fair amount of rightwing talk radio during the week-- sometimes for shits and giggles, sometimes just to see what they're talking about and often because it's just sort of a sick fascination of mine. Lately it does seem like Limbaugh and Beck have been especially unhinged about, well, everything and nothing. Both have been especially fond of words like "revolution" and warning/promising that it's indeed coming. They're truly full of rage, piss and vinegar and are being entirely scattershot about it-- there isn't anything going right these days. Except for their tea party protests, they're pretty jazzed about those. It's kinda sad, really. Forget Limbaugh and Beck, the real concern is everyone who calls in echoes their sentiments, they're just so darned angry because Obama/liberals/media are destroying EVERYTHING. The guys are blowhards for a living, so nothing they say surprises me, but the level of vitriol and helplessness and stronger than I've ever seen it and Obama hasn't even been in office for 3 months. So I do worry a bit about their angry, paranoid gun-toting followers. Especially right after something bad happens in their personal lives-- relationships, jobs, etc. They have a way of blaming all of their personal problems on external causes and then symbolically taking it out on the wrong people.

True enough

So I do worry a bit about their angry, paranoid gun-toting followers. Especially right after something bad happens in their personal lives-- relationships, jobs, etc. They have a way of blaming all of their personal problems on external causes and then symbolically taking it out on the wrong people. Even without something bad happening they tend to look outward for the cause of their anxiety, but you are correct that the incidence of 'outbursts' will increase. I mean people shooting up a McDonalds or something. It would be nice if maybe a little of the loony wrath was extended to the current crop of villians - the ultra-rich who have too much and let this thing fester too long, but the ultra-rich are paying Rush and the rest so you can bet the ultra-rich won't be the target of authoritarian rage. No, rage against the ultra-rich will have to come from the rest of us, and since we aren't nuts, things would have to be a lot worse for that rage to come. Since authoritarian followers tend to follow authority that is probably why Rush is having such a problem sicking them on the President. Rush needs to find a different scapegoat, and that is why I mentioned China or Muslims. The irony is that while the individuals get more crazy their party loses credibility and the GOP loses political power. Personally I liked it better when the John Birchers stayed out of politics. Once the GOP started courting them and pretending to give them a voice (while simultaneously keeping them out of sight) then some bad political things happened, and it will take awhile to get the loonies under control again. As a sane society we don't want the loonies running the asylum, even if that means the loonies freak out and shoot up the place for awhile. Hopefully we can keep the loonies under control, and maybe even keep them away from really big guns, and hopefully this situation blows itself out. Tripp

The Right

I understand their panic. I felt such an agony of things going all wrong since Reagon and I am sure that is what they feel now. Thanks to Bush, the country may be awakening to the deep changes we need to bring us into a brave new world. He screwed up so exquisitely well that people who never would have thought we needed change are galvanized into wanting it. Over the last 30 years the Righties assumed they were heading toward Utopia(aka Hell for the rest of us) only to awakened befuddled to the fact that maybe that is not the future. I am as befuddled to suddenly to be in a new land where my greatest concerns are now center stage and, for the first time in my 50 plus years(well, at least since adolescence), I feel actual hope. And I'm willing to work hard for it,too.

Right

I absolutely agree. There is a tremendous, violent anger in some of these people that terrifies me.

Ahem,

Their angst is not inchoate, it's tacit. Obama is blackity-black-black, and they can't talk about that in polite society. So they steam and fume and mutter and make no sense. With the rage junkies on the right it usually comes back to race. It's really that simple.

Blackety, black, black....

Blackety, black, black.... Jimbo - you nailed it. So true and so transparent.

they're living their very

they're living their very own sequel to the "blair witch project"...

MaynardHandley is right, I think.

All that the winguts believed in, all that was supposed to inherently right and true, has been found, well, wanting. The divine certitudes, the bedrock principles that supported all their assertions have melted away like winter snow in the sun. They had years in which their worldview was in ascendancy, years of solid political power, years of media domination, and it all not only didn't pay off, it has nearly destroyed many of our institutions. So, they're dazed and confused and looking for someone to blame. Only this time, there's no one but them to take the fall. I say screw 'em all, but I'm just a little worried that some of them will be tempted to act on their violent rhetoric.

we're half-way there

Those commenters mentioning that conservatism has been a miserable failure when applied to reality are half-way there. The right knows, even as they seek someone to blame besides themselves and their ideology, that conservatism has been a political solvent, disintegrating whatever it touches. But that's only half the problem. Conservatism's failure is not liberalism's success, merely liberalism's opportunity. The biting fear on the right is the liberalism will make things better, cementing liberal ideas for a generation. They're upset about recent failures certainly, but they're scared that, and I think a war metaphor is appropriate since the right likes to think in those terms, retreat will turn into rout. http://www.ravensblog.net

I think it is fairly simple

The reason for all the nuttiness is the economy combined with their loss of power. They are politically defanged (except for limpdicks like Bayh and other DINOs) and, being a party for the rich, served up by slave labor (the base), they are all reaping what that sort of economic/social policy has sown. The nuts are hit on both sides: no more political power and they are losing their jobs and their homes. Game over. What else is there but desperation?

Okay, well. . .

The latest word on that guy who killed three cops up in Pittsburgh is that he was afraid Obama would take his guns away. I'm sure Faux News and talk radio are preparing rebuttals and looking for dirt on whoever leaked that one to the press. "You signed the papers. You wanted to be here!" -Drill Sgt. Leach, 1971

Nothing is as dangerous as a

Nothing is as dangerous as a man who feels inadequate and the wingnuts feel pretty damned inadequate these days. Unfortunately, the targets they choose for their rage are generally ones that can't fight back, like their wives and children or co-workers they ambush in the workplace after first barricading avenues of escape. As far as I'm concerned, because they whip up these violent, pathetic basket-cases into mouth-foaming hatred and because an America armed to the teeth is sacred to them, Limbaugh, Beck, Savage and the rest are responsible for the murders and mayhem their listeners commit. They have innocent blood on their hands.

A little reticent...

tagged as: 
I too, have been trying (since the middle of the election really) to spend some time with both left and right-wing TV, radio and blogs etc., and I have to say that we have all fallen prey to the manipulations of the elite purveyors of left and right ideology. What began as a "culture war" fabricated for political gain by the right wing has been gleefully enjoined by the left. As I see it, the left and right are talking past one another to no useful purpose, but to make ourselves feel better and make some rich people richer (Rupert Murdoch and Sumner Redstone for example.) This is helpful to the elites on both sides who seem to be behaving in very similar ways. I am disoriented by the Obama administration's embrace of secrecy and cover-ups in both human rights and finance files. It seems he is compounding the abuses and errors of the previous administration simply by maintaining the status quo. I feel much less sanguine about the possibility of the Democrats doing what is right (prosecuting the war crimes, holding financial miscreants accountable and taking meaningful steps to avert theses sorts of tragedies in future). If progressive ideologies become as distorted and discredited as the conservative ones have been, all we are left with is the establishment elites versus everyone else. We are humans first, and political creatures second. As John Stuart so famously said on Crossfire, all this "us and them" bellicosity trumped up for ratings and profit is "hurting America". Obama's hands across the isle will continue to be slapped back as long as the population is whipped into a frenzy of loathing for the "other". I'm dreaming. But perhaps the FCC should impose rules for broadcasting similar to old-fashioned newspaper practices. News is news, opinion is opinion, ads are ads, and all are clearly labeled as such. We might start evaluating our journalists on the content and value of their reporting rather than on how much we agree with their conclusions. Opinionated blowhards could no longer pretend to be in the news business, but treated as entertainers. I, for one, would love to see the big media companies begin to uphold their fourth amendment responsibilities (work that is done well every day on MJ, Slate and a hundred other blogs for tiny audiences). If the country needs a firewall between banks, like the old Glass-Stegall, I argue we need a firewall between news and entertainment even more. The issues we face right now are just too important.

correction

OOps! - that's First Amendment (I'm Canadian, clearly a little fuzzy on my US civics)

Mostly agree. But for

Mostly agree. But for Obama's "hand across the aisle" being "I'll listen but only if you agree with me in the end". Sad but true. And Keith Olbermann demonstrates your last point. He will embarrass us to the point of rivaling their insanity, and our admission of this is vital. He is a valid laughing stock.

Why don't you people just move to a socialist country

By calling yourself "Progressive" you are admitting that you have no desire to be patriotic. That is fine, however ironic. You use the freedom, that my family granted you through blood, as a weapon to demolish it. You invite socialism with no concept of what it is really like. You call us names while you survive only because of what we've built. I can live with all of that, but perhaps you should go live under the rules that you so desperately want to impose on us before you chew up the constitution and spit it out. There are socialist nations all over the world who would love another unproductive mouth to feed. You're not listening to the right, you're listening to each other talk about the right. You're so wrapped up in emotional response that you wont let the reality filter through. I'm listening to the left and I find myself having to part with reason to understand you. You clearly do not understand the concept of America as it was created by our forefathers. Obviously there were no Leftists, Liberals or Democrats around when America was founded and the constitution was written or this country would have never made it! Hopefully I've gotten your blood boiling, maybe now that we've gotten the name calling out of the way we can be friends.I would like to invite you to visit FREEDOMFRONT and see what the right is really thinking. I would also like to invite you to engage me in a spirited debate not as a way to beat one another but to better understand one another.

What's the right? Let's be

What's the right? Let's be more precise. Bush was the religious left crony of the rich and pro-Israel warmonger who hated our freedoms. Obama is a profligate far left crony of Wall St. bankers who will probably bankrupt our country. What's not be be apocalyptic about?

>You invite socialism with

>You invite socialism with no concept of what it is really like. If by that label you mean Canada or the EU, we find it quite nice actually. Good for business, in fact. And your lawsuit-culture seems to be more constraining than our explicit rules. >Obviously there were no Leftists, Liberals or Democrats around when America was founded... No, sorry, your conservatives of the time (authoritarians and those fearful of change) mostly moved up to Canada. From what I've read, your founders were enlightenment thinkers - the liberals of the time. I think what's happened is that in 1989 the failure of communism demonstrated for us all the constraint on one end of the state/private economy split spectrum, and the failures of unregulated capitalism in the 1920s and 2000's, show the limit of the other end. Canada of course, as always, finds itself smugly in the boring middle.

It may be nebulous now, but wait a bit

This citizen has been observing American politics from within and from without its borders for some time, and have had the feeling that the social pendulum that swings back and forth between progressivism and conservatism had been held back forcefully on the conservative side of the armature courtesy of the NeoCon stranglehold on it's string. That hold may have been weakened, but it has not been relinquished completely. Not with such authoritarian wet-dreams as drug prohibition still in operation. And what is so fascinating about that is that it's that same drug prohibition, whose civil rights-destroying provisions formed the legal foundation for abominations like the (choke, cough, gag) 'PATRIOT Act and other laws that further shred those civil liberties. Yet, the Right, which sees boogeymen through telescopic sights years and miles away, and furiously sends up every warning imaginable about 'fabianistic' encroachments upon liberties, are curiously blind to something that's right here, right now and can be used to achieve exactly what they fear. They should be more worried about the DrugWar's instrumentalities being turned upon them rather than some fictional Illuminist/Reptilian/Satanic/Whatever out to get 'em.

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