Obama and the Pirates
| Mon Apr. 13, 2009 8:16 AM PDT
The Washington Post reports on the rescue of the captain of the Maersk Alabama from Somali pirates:
The result — a dramatic and successful rescue operation by U.S. Special Operations forces — left Obama with an early victory that could help build confidence in his ability to direct military actions abroad.
....The operation pales in scope and complexity to the wars underway in Iraq and Afghanistan....Nonetheless, it may help to quell criticism leveled at Obama that he came to office as a Democratic antiwar candidate who could prove unwilling or unable to harness military might when necessary.
You know, normally I'd say this was kind of ridiculous. The Navy Seals who led the operation deserve tons of credit, but it really doesn't say very much about the president.
But I'll make an exception this time. The right-wing criticism of Obama during the incident got so over-the-top that at times you'd have thought Obama was ready to invite the Somali pirates over for tea. That was ridiculous. So if this shuts them up for a few moments, it will be a well-deserved few moments of silence for Obama.
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Comments
Wishful Thinking
Submitted by Jon (not verified) on Mon Apr. 13, 2009 8:52 AM PDT.
"So if this shuts them up for a few moments, it will be a well-deserved few moments of silence for Obama."
That would be nice, wouldn't it? Not likely, but a nice thought.
You might THINK this would shut them up...
Submitted by Rick Herrick (not verified) on Mon Apr. 13, 2009 8:54 AM PDT.
But you'd be wrong. Just to clarify:
- When there is no rescue, that's the President's fault.
- When there is a rescue, the President had nothing to do with it.
There will be a short quiz later.
Rick's right, but for a different reason
Submitted by gslusher on Mon Apr. 13, 2009 1:17 PM PDT.
Rick Herrick is correct, but not for the reason many people think, i.e., that the media would blame Obama if anything went wrong, but don't give him "credit" when it works. That's actually the way it is SUPPOSED to be in the military. (I retired as a lieutenant colonel after 22 years active duty in the US Air Force.) As one of my commanders said--a philosophy that, later, as a supervisor, I followed myself, "As a leader, you should take none of the credit and all of the blame." If stuff goes wrong, it IS your fault: perhaps the planning was faulty, the troops lacked training, equipment didn't work correctly, but all of those reflect upon leadership. Conversely, if it does work, that is primarily due to the work, courage, and skill of your subordinates.
It would be very good if CEOs of US corporations would learn and follow that principle.
The third option
Submitted by thersites on Mon Apr. 13, 2009 8:58 AM PDT.
Rick Herrick says it well, but leaves out the obvious third choice.
If there's a rescue and it goes wrong, that also is the President's fault.
Nothing will shut those morons up. Learn to deal with it.
But if Obama wanted to be really presidential, he'd be out on the White House lawn in a flight suit right now.
Mebbe we should try the ol'
Submitted by kenga (not verified) on Mon Apr. 13, 2009 9:38 AM PDT.
Mebbe we should try the ol' peanut butter on the roof of the mouth trick.
...you'd have thought Obama was about ready to invite the Somali pirates over for tea.
Or maybe some tea bagging….
I can not help but to believe that this was an intentional gambit. They: 1) Saw what was perceived to be a difficult situation to be resolved successfully. 2) Invented conditions for appropriate behavior that are largely irrelevant . 3) Stacked the deck with all sorts of bogus claims about what the outcome of this crises would mean.
I am not saying they hoped for disaster, but…..
Now I hope they get boiled in their own pudding.
Shuts them up?
Submitted by gyrfalcon on Mon Apr. 13, 2009 9:11 AM PDT.
Are you kidding? They're already braying about how wimpy Obama only authorized lethal force if the captain was in "imminent danger." A real man, they say, would have had the pirates blown away at the first opportunity, whether they were threatening the captain's life or not, and whether that risked killing the captain or not.
Here's just one example
http://www.michaelgraham.com
Remember the Wizard of Oz?
Submitted by Cazart on Mon Apr. 13, 2009 9:17 AM PDT.
When Dorothy throws the water on the Wicked Witch? "Help me! I'm melting!" That's the GOP right now. This calm, competent, centrist President is absolutely killing them. What you're hearing is their death agonies. Unfortunately, like herpes, they never really "die." But the louder they squeal, the better off the nation is.
Christians expressed a desire for the US military to kill more
Submitted by tpx on Mon Apr. 13, 2009 9:31 AM PDT.
Some Christians who heard the news about the captain's rescue after Easter dinner yesterday expressed a desire for the US military to kill lots more Somalian pirates. Although the pirates threaten violence when taking ships and their crews hostage, they have not taken many lives. The hostility these pirates generate from citizens is disproportionate to the violence they perpetrate. Disruption of industrial trade cannot be the source of such hostility, whereas defiance of authority, especially defiance of US military authority, along with media repetition of any hostage victim's biography, allows citizens of the most powerful and militarily engaged nation on earth to feel like they are victims deserving the ultimate revenge.
RNC memo
Submitted by dzman_49 (not verified) on Mon Apr. 13, 2009 9:34 AM PDT.
From: Republican National Committee
To: non-RINO's in mass media
Re: Somalia piracy
Though it's natural your first reaction to the resolution of this conflict might be joy, gratitude, praising the Navy SEALs, etc., we request that you please suppress your approval of this outcome. President Obama approved the successful action, therefore loyal conservatives must, in all good conscience nitpick, cavil about and pooh-pooh the significance of the achievement. Please internalize and disburse the following ideologically correct talking points:
1. "Resist Tyranny!" Note the slippery slope irresistably connecting U.S. Naval action against lawless pirates with the institution of FEMA re-education camps.
2. "Get the Federal Government OFF OUR BACKS". Characterize the Somalians as entrepreneurs, simple fishermen "making lemonade" despite their impoverished circumstances. Interview the most attractive, English-speaking relatives of the pirates.
3. "Obama = Uncle Tom." Why is Obama siding with whitey against working class black people? Use black on-air talent to interview reliable Republican UT's in appropriate (i.e., urban hip-hop) settings to raise this issue.
4. "2nd Amendment uber alles." Observe wryly that if every merchant vessel was armed as well as the average Oklahoman we wouldn't have this piracy problem in the first place. Suppress information suggesting this would cause the cost of liability insurance to skyrocket.
5. "Rove Rule #1." Downplay Captain Richard Phillip's selfless heroism until we devise a way to spin that as a character flaw.
6. "Blame Bill." Work Pres. Clinton's 1993 failure in Mogadishu into the report as much as possible.
Get to work, dittoheads!
Obama vs. Pittsburgh
Submitted by thersites on Mon Apr. 13, 2009 10:01 AM PDT.
Where's that "Obama hates the Steelers" guy? Clearly Obama hates the Pirates, too.
We Live in different moral universes
Submitted by John Hansen (not verified) on Mon Apr. 13, 2009 1:14 PM PDT.
tpx wrote;
Some Christians who heard the news about the captain's rescue after Easter dinner yesterday expressed a desire for the US military to kill lots more Somalian pirates. Although the pirates threaten violence when taking ships and their crews hostage, they have not taken many lives. The hostility these pirates generate from citizens is disproportionate to the violence they perpetrate. Disruption of industrial trade cannot be the source of such hostility, whereas defiance of authority, especially defiance of US military authority, along with media repetition of any hostage victim's biography, allows citizens of the most powerful and militarily engaged nation on earth to feel like they are victims deserving the ultimate revenge.
tpx - I am writing this because I do not know what moral universe you live in. It certainly is not the same as mine. When someone holds people hostage at gun point - that puts the hostages' lives in imminent danger, whether they follow through or not. The Somali pirates currently have over 200 hostages whose lives are in imminent danger. This is called piracy and kidnapping, which at least used to be punishable by death. I am a Christian. I love life. I love freedom. I love God. They have "..not taken many lives.." is irrelevant. They have held people against their will at gun point. That you don't understand this as an act of war, or an offense worthy of execution is just amazing to me. I was happy when they said the 3 pirates had been killed. This is not because I am a bloodthirsty imperialist seeking revenge. It is because I value life and freedom. I value American lives. I value merchant and crew members lives. I value Somali lives. By allowing piracy to be profitable for some Somali's, we are condemning the country of Somalia to be ruled by outlaws. Do you honestly think the local government has the resources to defend itself against pirates who regularly get 5 million dollar paydays. IMHO, your thinking on this issue is incredibly confused. Like I said, we just seem to live in different moral universes.
Shut up!
Submitted by Caspian of the Lake on Mon Apr. 13, 2009 1:31 PM PDT.
Good job Kevin, you've articulated in the fewest number of words the main doctrine of the left: Shut up!
Don't like the right criticizing Obama: Shut up!
Don't like conservative talk radio? Roll out the fairness doctrine. Shut up!
Stifle debate on college campuses? Make it politically incorrect to talk about race and gender issues. Shut up!
Don't believe in made caused global warming? You're a denier. Shut up!
No Kevin, the right's not going to shut up anymore than the left did during in the past eight years. And why would you want them to anyway?
I think the thing that annoys me the most about you and your O'bots is that you just don't get than both sides- left and right- use the same tactics, have the same strategies and virtually mirror each other in their methods. Somehow you think your side is more virtuous than the right. Quite frankly both sides are completely corrupt and have only one thing as their main objective; staying in power. (But I thought deficits mattered. Shut up!)
The first time Bush 1 used military force- in Panama- the left, which is to say the national media, accused him of trying to prove his manhood. Of course no one is going to say that about Obama sending in the Seals against four guys in a dingy because that would be considered you know...SHUT UP!
a greater crime is the killing of civilians by the military
Submitted by tpx on Mon Apr. 13, 2009 1:42 PM PDT.
Americans live in a moral universe where the kidnapping of a ship's American captain in international waters by pirates is a greater crime than torture approved by their highest governmental officials or the killing of civilians by their military. This moral universe was on display at an Easter dinner yesterday.
tpx - I really feel sorry
Submitted by John Hansen (not verified) on Mon Apr. 13, 2009 3:47 PM PDT.
tpx -
I really feel sorry for you. I don't know what country you are from, or how old you are, but according to my standards you are morallly confused.
Let me try to explain the difference to you.
Americans vote for their President and place him as Commander in Chief of the most powerful military force on the planet. You may disagree with a policy, but let's not compare apples to oranges here.
1. There was real open debate in this country about how far we should go when trying to get information from known terrorists. This was not willy nilly torture, this was deciding whether water-boarding is an effective technique against known dangerous criminals. America is a country where this is the subject of debate in a democracy. What universe do you live in that this was not the case?
2. Every war has civilian casualties. Show me one that does not. What kind of obtuse thinking do you have that you think America approves of deliberate killing of civilians. We prosecute soldiers who do this.
This is a democracy which has consistently showed the highest respect for human life, the highest ideals, the most unselfish attitude toward other nations, and has been the greatest force for good. If you stay ignorant, you can live in your liberal dreamland where there is this great Satan of America out there torturing and killing everyone and wanting to run over every other country for the profit of Dick Cheney. This may adequately describe your dreamland, but it does not comport with reality.
Now a word about the kidnapping of a ship's captain. These are lawless pirates who are living a life apart from the law. Again, in your liberal make believe land, these may be all really dedicated upstanding Somali's just protesting several world trade policies, but again, that's just your dreamland.
These pirates have taken over a country. Because the timid western countries have refused to deal with the piracy issue, Somalian people suffer. This lawlessness is what is the real threat to world peace, not the well disciplined, law abiding, American army. The Christians were correctly celebrating that the U.S. has, for the good of all law abiding people, put an end to 3 of the lives of these pirates. They were correctly hoping that several of those which are causing the direct suffering of over 200 hostages and their families, and the indirect suffering of millions in Somalia and Kenya would meet similar fates in the future.
I am sorry for the rant, but someone has to wake you up. Maybe everyone you usually converse with shares your naive view of the world.
There is just no pleasing some people.
In case some people are not aware - Somalia is not really a 'country' and does not have a government the way we normally think of such things. Currently Somalia is a 'failed state' which has a border along a busy shipping lane.
Oh, and if there are any Libertarians still willing to admit they are a Libertarian, Somalia is what the Libertarian utopia looks like.
I suspect most people on the left and the right wouldn't give two shakes of a lambs tail for what happens to the people unfortunate enough to have to try to live in a failed state, but I also think most people agree that piracy and providing a haven for terrorists is a BAD thing and we should do something about it, whether we want to or not.
So - what to do, what to do?
It seems to me this is one problem that we have in common with India and China, and it may be a way to work together with our new overlords.
Tripp
John the willfully ignorant
Submitted by Trippp on Mon Apr. 13, 2009 4:28 PM PDT.
This is a democracy which has consistently showed the highest respect for human life, the highest ideals, the most unselfish attitude toward other nations, and has been the greatest force for good.
John,
Wow.
You are way out there man. You talk in extremes.
I wish our country were the way you say, and it is worthwhile and virtuous to try to make it that way, but come on. There have been times when we have not lived up to our ideals. You are crossing the line from patriotism to jingoism.
Tripp
I really feel sorry for
Submitted by tpx on Mon Apr. 13, 2009 6:22 PM PDT.
I really feel sorry for you.
I forgive your inflated ego.
Tripp, Sorry for the
Submitted by John Hansen (not verified) on Mon Apr. 13, 2009 7:39 PM PDT.
Tripp,
Sorry for the superlatives. I did go overboard. I just get tired of people knocking down America.
Look I know there have been plenty of times that America has not lived up to its ideals. However, I get tired of people comparing America to some fictitious perfect country which has never existed and will never exist.
When I say
"...showed the highest respect for human life, the highest ideals, the most unselfish attitude toward other nations, and has been the greatest force for good..."
I am comparing America to real countries, not to fake ones in someone's utopian imagination.
Tripp - Oh, and if there are
Submitted by John Hansen (not verified) on Mon Apr. 13, 2009 7:44 PM PDT.
Tripp - Oh, and if there are any Libertarians still willing to admit they are a Libertarian, Somalia is what the Libertarian utopia looks like.
I am not libertarian, but I think this is a completely false statement.
If I am not mistaken, libertarians stand for government protection of private property rights and strong defense. This is hardly going on in Somalia.
I think you mean Anarchist utopia - not Libertarian.
John - you appear to be
Submitted by Marc (not verified) on Tue Apr. 14, 2009 4:43 AM PDT.
John - you appear to be saying, basically, that we can do no wrong because our intentions are pure. If you step back you'll notice that this is a universal claim. Torture is both ineffective in getting information and profoundly evil. It was adopted as official policy by a vicious and criminal administration and enthusiastically endorsed by one of our political parties. In fact, it was the GOP love of torture that broke the respect I had for the party itself. There is no basis other than cruelty; it is flatly immoral; and innocent people have been driven insane and killed in our names.
We are different from pirates - but when we talk about morality the rest of the world is no longer willing to listen to us. That is only one of the reasons why I despise what Bush did to my country.
Marc, Just curious - you say
Submitted by John Hansen (not verified) on Tue Apr. 14, 2009 10:03 AM PDT.
Marc,
Just curious - you say "In fact, it was the GOP love of torture that broke the respect I had for the party itself."
This means, I assume that you previously voted for
Bush over Gore
Dole over Clinton
Bush ( the Elder ) over Clinton
Bush ( the Elder ) over Dukakis
Reagan over Mondale
Reagan over Carter
Is this correct? Or are you actually misrepresenting yourself.
As for the world hating us because of Bush. The middle east is going to always hate us because of Israel. Timid Europe is not going to love a leader who makes morally tough decisions, they long for the US to have a leader who tells them that their pacifist mentality is good. They don't despise us for using water-boarding on three prisoners. They despise us for standing up and fighting when they would rather not. Just asking you to be honest.
BTW - Marc - If you are so
Submitted by John Hansen (not verified) on Tue Apr. 14, 2009 10:06 AM PDT.
BTW -
Marc - If you are so against torture, have you ever read about the French prison system?
placate the troubling national conscience of Americans
Submitted by tpx on Tue Apr. 14, 2009 12:05 PM PDT.
Marc is probably not French. He refers to a collective 'us,' representing Americans. Americans have little power to change the French prison system, while being American citizens does empower them to change their nation's foreign and security policies.
Bringing up the French prison system is similar to the media broadcasting stories about inconsequential pirate attacks along the Eastern coast of Africa; it is a diversion to reduce emphasis on the major issues, which would be the US occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan and the policies used during them. Mass media does not broadcast much about the pirates of South East Asia.
The purpose is to divert Americans' attention from salient issues that negatively affect so many people's lives, which the reporting of the rescue and killing of three pirates by Special Forces very ably did. Despite America's unquestioned military power and penetration throughout the world, Americans do not feel good about their nation because of renditions, torture, excess aggression, military aid to Israel, imprisonment of noncombatants, targeting of civilians, etc. Violence committed in America's name never seems to end, so the rescue of a ship's captain taken hostage by Muslim pirates is used to placate the troubling national conscience of Americans and make them glad the military force they pay so much for finally did something worthwhile. The news from the national media last night could not stop gushing about the rescue. One could have equated the reporting of the hostage rescue to VJ Day. There was no mention of drones bombing Pakistani homes, conditions at Bagram prison or the indictments of W. Bush administration officials coming from a Spanish court, which was the plan.
Republicans SHOULD be happy
Submitted by Ryan (not verified) on Wed Apr. 15, 2009 11:59 PM PDT.
This was just like the Jessica Lynch rescue, but, you know, real.
Provillus discount
Submitted by Roxana (not verified) on Sun Sep. 6, 2009 2:32 PM PDT.
Good Day. If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates.
I am from Sweden and learning to speak English, give true I wrote the following sentence: "Not also historically initial as the madarosis of male on the testosterone, stress, stimulant type, fluids of hair, and due types can not portray loss of length in the approaches."
;-) Thanks in advance. Roxana.
2006 porsche boxster s for sale
Submitted by Marvin (not verified) on Mon Oct. 19, 2009 2:08 PM PDT.
Good Day. You're dealing with the demon of external validation. You can't beat external validation. You want to know why? Because it feels sooo good.
I am from Sudan and also now'm speaking English, give true I wrote the following sentence: "Computer engine management system the vehicle engineering slate quarry majority must sell art."
With best wishes :D, Marvin.
986 boxster subwoofer
Submitted by Reuben (not verified) on Tue Oct. 20, 2009 6:29 PM PDT.
Could you help me. With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
I am from Argentina and now teach English, give true I wrote the following sentence: " It also pulls on what stock you pool."
THX 8), Reuben.
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