Torture Memo Followup
| Mon Apr. 6, 2009 10:08 AM PDT
A few days ago Michael Isikoff reported that the White House had backed off on plans to release some Bush-era torture memos thanks to mounting internal pushback: "U.S. intelligence officials, led by senior national-security aide John Brennan, mounted an intense campaign to get the decision reversed, according to a senior administration official familiar with the debate. 
'Holy hell has broken loose over this,' said the official, who asked not to be identified because of political sensitivities."
Today, Scott Horton suggests that there's more than just pushback involved:
'Holy hell has broken loose over this,' said the official, who asked not to be identified because of political sensitivities."Today, Scott Horton suggests that there's more than just pushback involved:
Senate Republicans are now privately threatening to derail the confirmation of key Obama administration nominees for top legal positions by linking the votes to suppressing critical torture memos from the Bush era. A reliable Justice Department source advises me that Senate Republicans are planning to “go nuclear” over the nominations of Dawn Johnsen as chief of the Office of Legal Counsel in the Department of Justice and Yale Law School Dean Harold Koh as State Department legal counsel if the torture documents are made public....A Republican Senate source confirms the strategy. It now appears that Republicans are seeking an Obama commitment to safeguard the Bush administration’s darkest secrets in exchange for letting these nominations go forward.
These memos must be real time bombs. So much material has been released already, both officially and otherwise, that I've long assumed we already knew everything the Bush administraton had done — in broad terms, anyway. But apparently not. If these memos just confirmed our use of things like stress positions and black sites, it's hard to imagine they'd prompt such ferocious opposition. There must be some truly new — and truly gruesome — disclosures in them.
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Comments
This is pretty simple.
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon Apr. 6, 2009 10:43 AM PDT.
This is pretty simple. Don't release the memos until the appointments are confirmed, then release the memos and point out how Republicans wanted to use torture as a political football. *Wipes hands*
This is pretty simple.
Submitted by karog on Mon Apr. 6, 2009 12:05 PM PDT.
If only it were so simple.
The Repubs will require a firm guarantee, the kind you don't renig on in the Senate, before they allow the confirmations.
If the Repubs are willing to go nuclear, then the Dems should also go nuclear and disallow filibustering of confirmations and not just for judges. But the Repubs will always out-crazy the Dems so this will never happen.
The Real Target
Submitted by AndrewBW on Mon Apr. 6, 2009 11:11 AM PDT.
If these memos just confirmed our use of things like stress positions and black sites, it's hard to imagine they'd prompt such ferocious opposition. There must be some truly new — and truly gruesome — disclosures in them.
What if the real goal of the GOP isn't to prevent release of the memos, but rather to prevent confirmation of the president's nominees? The memos may just be handy excuse for continued obstructionism.
Not New Stuff
Submitted by J. Michael Neal on Mon Apr. 6, 2009 11:18 AM PDT.
My guess is that the reason people are opposing the release of the memos isn't because they have new, even more gruesome revelations about what we did. I suspect that they name names of people who did the stuff we already know about, or complete specifics on who authorized them. You'd get this reaction if there is enough in the memos to necessitate a prosecution.
J. Michael Neal is right
Submitted by dday (not verified) on Mon Apr. 6, 2009 11:26 AM PDT.
If specific authors gave their blessing to specific acts of torture, or implicate others by name, I suspect that would be very actionable evidence, particularly for the Spanish court which has a pending investigation into some of these very authors.
I say release the torture
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon Apr. 6, 2009 11:40 AM PDT.
I say release the torture memos. The Republicans should be ashamed of themselves, and the idea that we would now cover up under pressure from the thugs would screwed the country so badly over the past eight years?? Oh, please, give me a break.
Release them
Submitted by Jon (not verified) on Mon Apr. 6, 2009 11:45 AM PDT.
If the fear is that they will weaken the GOP, then weaken them before the nominee battle. Make them own torture, and show the nominee fight in that light.
Let them fillibuster
Submitted by keithofrpi on Mon Apr. 6, 2009 11:47 AM PDT.
The Republican flat-earthers have threatened fillibuster on a whole host of worthy people and programs. Why not let them do it? Political junkies may realize how crazy the Republican position now is, but most people aren't paying attention. Maybe letting them try to fillibuster on behalf of torture would be a good way to expose their indecent and unpopular position.
Torture memos
Submitted by BarryG (not verified) on Mon Apr. 6, 2009 11:50 AM PDT.
I'm just wondering here -- is there any chance that the Republicans' threat to hold up confirmation to keep the memos secret could lead to their prosecution for obstruction of justice?
Torture Memos
Submitted by bob h (not verified) on Mon Apr. 6, 2009 11:55 AM PDT.
Leak them now. A Republican filibuster, which probably can't be mounted anyway, would then look like vindictive retribution over revelation of lawless, degenerate practices.
Skeletons - maybe not
Submitted by IdahoEv on Mon Apr. 6, 2009 12:01 PM PDT.
> There must be some truly new — and truly gruesome — disclosures in them.
Honestly, I wonder. During the Bush administration we saw the GOP willing to go to crazy lengths to cover up things that were barely even notable. They seem desperate to govern in secret, and to hide even the things we already know about anyway.
I wouldn't be shocked if these documents turned out to be *less* crazy than what we already suspect, and yet the idiot GOPers are willing to blow all their political capital keeping them under wraps anyway.
Taking up the Pen
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon Apr. 6, 2009 12:28 PM PDT.
No one who wrote a memo within the Justice Department has any justifiable expectation of privacy, nor does anyone who requested such a memo.
The purpose of putting the words in writing was to put them on record. If the administration had wanted to avoid disclosure, a soft whisper would have sufficed.
It's Simple
Submitted by reino on Mon Apr. 6, 2009 12:36 PM PDT.
Either the GOP will go nukular/start WWIII/filibuster everything/ringadingadingdong on a daily basis, or the Obama Administration will be weak failure.
Hopefully, these empty threats will be called soon.
Why are the Republicans this sensitive?
Submitted by MarkH on Mon Apr. 6, 2009 12:55 PM PDT.
There are many possibilities. The one most annoying is that they're simply looking for a reason to block this and other things Democrats might want to do. They're drawing a line in the sand and saying, "Step across this and you get nothing." Of course, it's easy for them since they haven't been giving votes for anything anyway.
I say Obama should hold off 'til he gets the health care reform package and then decide how to handle the 'threat'.
Here is a thought: 1)
Submitted by Wary Tale (not verified) on Mon Apr. 6, 2009 1:10 PM PDT.
Here is a thought:
1) Document the Republicans' promise to allow the confirmations to go through IF the administration makes a binding promise not to declassify the memos. (Get it in writing). Don't release this documentation yet.
2) Go ahead with the confirmation process, and do NOT agree to what the Republicans have asked for.
3) Let them fillibuster.
4) Release the documentation of the Republicans' "blackmail".
advertise the blackmail of the Republican senators
Submitted by tpx on Mon Apr. 6, 2009 1:37 PM PDT.
The Obama administration should advertise the blackmail of the Republican senators after receiving a point by point of their demands for not releasing the memos in return for the non-obstruction of appointees. Americans would appreciate publicity about how business is done in DC.
Let the Republicans have their hissy fit
Submitted by Jon Karak (not verified) on Mon Apr. 6, 2009 1:55 PM PDT.
Americans know which party was cheering for torture. One way or another the information will be released to the public. Throwing a hissy fit for illuminating the truth only makes them more repulsive.
"Senate Republicans are now
Submitted by MaynardHandley on Mon Apr. 6, 2009 3:14 PM PDT.
"Senate Republicans are now privately threatening to derail the confirmation of key Obama administration nominees for top legal positions by linking the votes to suppressing critical torture memos from the Bush era. A reliable Justice Department source advises me that Senate Republicans are planning to “go nuclear” "
Of for fsck's sake. They are going to go nuclear on this, and every other item, for the rest of the Obama presidency. Have y'all been asleep the past two months? You honestly think they will change their MO once they have what they want over these memos?
And how exactly does the Republican leadership plan to deliver on any promises of no obstruction? As each new issue arises, whether it's appointments or legislation, there'll be a gaggle of GOP reps and senators eager to vote no, on the grounds of "their conscience", and eager to grandstand for the adoring press about how no back-room deal is going to prevent them from doing right by America.
These people had their chance a month ago. They showed they cannot be trusted, and cannot work constructively with the adults running this country. Fsck them, and publish the damn memos.
Why doesn't Obama create new
Submitted by Tilli (MojaveDesert) (not verified) on Mon Apr. 6, 2009 3:39 PM PDT.
Why doesn't Obama create new positions for people he wants & skirt the confirmation process altogether?
Or, just release the docs and see what happens. All the while making lots of noise about the blackmail attempt and forcing Reps to justify it.
Or, go nucklar & have Holder start proceedings against Cheney and his shop.
what's worse than inaccuracy?
Submitted by GA-Sen Watcher (not verified) on Mon Apr. 6, 2009 3:47 PM PDT.
What could be more gruesome than the well-established fact that torture is much less accurate than rapport methods?
If these memos just
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon Apr. 6, 2009 4:00 PM PDT.
If these memos just confirmed our use of things like stress positions and black sites, it's hard to imagine they'd prompt such ferocious opposition. There must be some truly new — and truly gruesome — disclosures in them.I suspect the most controversial about these is the signature underneath them. The most plausible cause for the CIA, not known for its sensitivities, to be upset with this is that they fear legal consequences for its personnel. New details wont change much but better evidence of the chain of command might get the higherups to try another few bad apples/Lyndie-england approach. They might also contradict the earlier official released list of approved techniques that was limited to slapping and waterboarding but nothing sexual...
To acquiesce would be to
Submitted by YY (not verified) on Mon Apr. 6, 2009 5:38 PM PDT.
To acquiesce would be to conspire in a crime or cover-up thereof, no? Regardless of the intent of the administration and the legislature, it would appear that the legal bind is getting more and more difficult to ignore. This and the economy both, appear to be situations where the fundamental mistakes and wrong-doing are asserting their obvious presence to the point where continuing to ignore and pretend everything is hunky dory is becoming impossible. Time to recognize not all results are from good faith effort and to start to deal with criminality.
Rumsfeld told us all we need to know, as I remember
Submitted by Ron on Tue Apr. 7, 2009 3:45 AM PDT.
I'm amazed how short our memories are. I humbly advise you to watch Rumsfeld's testimony before Congress when Abu Ghraib first blew up. I don't remember the exact words, but Rumsfeld talked about proof, in the photographic record, or sadistic, horrific acts that would shock the conscience of any human being. I suppose I should look it up before I state this claim, but I'm almost sure he said something like that.
And I agree with y'all: Release the memos, and make Hannity, Limbaugh, O'Reilly and their ilk stand up and defend what their do-no-wrong America really did. Make those poor ignorant bastards objects of pity and disgust forever.
Timing is everything here.
Submitted by Pauline May (not verified) on Tue Apr. 7, 2009 5:26 AM PDT.
I say hold off as much as possible to get the most benefit before the 2010 elections. If we know these are going to be bad for the Republicans who defended the practice, then let 'em pay dearly and let the voters decide.
Pauline
As bob h said, Release them
Submitted by rmd (not verified) on Tue Apr. 7, 2009 9:25 AM PDT.
As bob h said, Release them now. If releasing the memos would discredit torture supporters, and blocking Johnsen and Koh is a torture-supporting act, then release would raise the cost of blocking.
IS THERE ANYTHING LOWER THAN
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Thu Apr. 16, 2009 1:28 PM PDT.
IS THERE ANYTHING LOWER THAN A REPUBLICAN ? When will people realize they are
ONLY about themselves, their plans to get ALL the money, ALL the power and establish an official aristocracy in what used to be America?
