Chart of the Day - 5.17.2009

| Sun May. 17, 2009 9:41 AM PDT

Is public opinion against abortion hardening, as a couple of recent polls indicate?  Not likely.  Over at the Monkey Cage, John Sides helpfully presents three decades of data from the National Election Studies which shows (a) remarkable steadiness and (b) if anything, a modest increase in the strong pro-choice position.  John slices and dices the data further at his place, if you're interested in the details.

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Comments

Allen is So Wrong

Charolotte Allen's oped piece is one misrepresentation after another. In fact, it's one lengthy defamation of athiests.

Rather than respond to all of her nonsense, I'll just comment on a couple of her ideas.

First, the section Kevin addressed -- "The problem with atheists -- and what makes them such excruciating snoozes -- is that few of them are interested in making serious metaphysical or epistemological arguments against God's existence, or in taking on the serious arguments that theologians have made attempting to reconcile . . ."

Kevin says that this is the same-old, tired argument he's read oh, so many times before. That's true, this is a lie oft repeated, but that's not the real problem. The real problem with the argument is that it's meaningless.

What on earth would a metaphysical argument be made by a person who doesn't believe in god? How does an atheist make an epistemological argument about a non-existent entity? This is pure nonsense. It doesn't even rise to the level of sophistry.

Ms. Allen: People who have no reason to believe in "metaphysics", don't craft arguments based in that nonexistent "field". Jeez.

Likewise for an epistemological argument. For the most part, atheists have looked at the so-called "evidence" for god offered by religious people and have concluded that the probability that god exists is so vanishingly small that no reason exists to believe it. Moreover, many atheists have looked carefully at religious peoples' claims and have found them utterly absurd. No reason exists to get into discussions of the nature, scope and limitations of knowledge.

What Ms. Allen is crying for is a serious response to a ridiculous question. I recommend you to the dreaded PZ Myers' Courtier's Reply for an appropriate response. (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/12/the_courtiers_reply.php).

Ms. Allen claims that, "What primarily seems to motivate atheists isn't rationalism but anger -- anger that the world isn't perfect, that someone forced them to go to church as children, that the Bible contains apparent contradictions, that human beings can be hypocrites and commit crimes in the name of faith."

She's wrong. Many, many decisions throughout the world are made on the basis of the truth of religious beliefs. Since most religious beliefs are false, these decisions are made for entirely wrong reasons. Two examples: 1. Giving tax-exempt status to churches so that they can use public money to spread false information, fear and hatred of those who are different and 2. the pope convincing people not to use condoms because condoms supposedly don't help inhibit the spread of AIDS (condoms do help).

Atheists are finally standing up and telling it like it is: Your religious beliefs are nonsense and making any decisions based upon those beliefs is down right stupid. Stop hurting yourself, your family, your country and the world. Give up on the tooth fairy and grow up.

Definitions?

Something I always found troubling about these polls is the imprecision of calling somebody pro-life or pro-choce. I, personally, think that early-term abortion should be legal, and late-term abortion illegal, with a gray area in-between. As do most people that I know, at least. So where do we fit in on a graph like that?

This graph is more granular

This graph is more granular than one usually sees, but still life of the mother really should be separated from rape and incest. E.g. the official position of the Catholic church is that abortion may sometimes be justified to save the life of the mother (depending on the odds of survival). Heading over to Monkey Cage doesn't entirely clear things up. There's a second data set that includes a health of the mother case, but since it's from a different source with a different methodology it's not shocking that it's numbers look mildly inconsistent. From their graph, it looks like >85% favor allowing abortion in this case which is obviously inconsistent with 15% believing abortion should never be legal even to save the life of the mother.

In 2000 I gave money to John

tagged as: 

In 2000 I gave money to John McCain’s presidential campaign because I believed him to be one of the finest patriots ever to run for president and infinitely superior to Bush, but by 2008 I wanted my money back.

This column and too many others have proven that between 2000 and 2008 McCain was captured and brainwashed by the Neocons into becoming their “Manchurian Candidate” for president.

This is truly one of the most tragic scenarios in American political history.

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