Gay Marriage in California

| Tue May. 26, 2009 10:19 AM PDT

The latest on Prop 8 from the LA Times:

The California Supreme Court today upheld Proposition 8's ban on same-sex marriage but also ruled that gay couples who wed before the election will continue to be married under state law.

....Although the court split 6-1 on the constitutionality of Proposition 8, the justices were unanimous in deciding to keep intact the marriages of as many as 18,000 gay couples who exchanged vows before the election. The marriages began last June, after a 4-3 state high court ruling striking down the marriage ban last May.

This doesn't surprise me on either count.  The argument that Prop 8 was a constitutional "revision" requiring a two-thirds vote, not a constitutional amendment requiring a majority vote, never seemed legally defensible.  At the same time, all the marriages performed prior to Prop 8 were as legal as church on Sunday.  I don't know if even an initiative could retroactively annul them, but at the very least it would need to do so specifically and directly, which Prop 8 didn't.

But it might soon be moot anyway.  Prop 8 passed by only a bare majority, and public sentiment is continuing to change.  An initiative to legalize gay marriage might well pass in 2010, and if it doesn't it certainly will by 2012 or 2014 at the latest.  Time is on the side of the good guys.

Advertisement

Advertisement

Kevin Drum is a political blogger for Mother Jones. For more of his stories, click here.

Get Mother Jones by Email - Free. Like what you're reading? Get the best of MoJo three times a week.

Comments

The good guys will win in

The good guys will win in the end on this, but maybe it's time to start thinking about whether it really is that great an idea to make it so easy to amend the state constitution.

It's not too late to fight Prop 8

tagged as: 
Good point, Larina. And I hope you're right that the good guys we'll win in the end. And I hope that happens sooner than later. Please sign the #RejectProp8 petition: http://bit.ly/fightprop8 - it's not too late!

Realize this is a big disappointment, but...

...it strikes me that, _purely from the standpoint of advancing the gay right to marry across the US_, this is a good decision. When the people finally do vote these rights into law in California in a few years, it won't be forever tainted by legalistic argument, and will be that much stronger a statement in the "culture wars."

russian single dating,

sory

russian single dating,

russian single dating, anastasia russian dating, russian love dating, dating in russian, dating single russian woman
Dating... russian dating now this appearance became more and more distributed. Many foreign rich men wish to get married on an common Russian or Ukrainian woman. Why do alien millionaires want to live only with Russian lady? All over the world there are many beautiful ladies, so why do they select only Russians? No one knows answer for this important russian dating and joyful question, but this note can show you a little truth. What do you think about Russian and Ukrainian ladies. Let me tell you. russian dating They are beautiful beautiful, kind, cheerful, funny and clever. Many them are very smart, but they choose a joyful family against their russian dating profession. Most of them wish to get married on a nice person and to raise a kid. They love their parents, they will help everybody who need them. In a dialog with common Russian or Ukrainian lady you will find many good feelings. russian dating Conversation with them is funnyly and simple. russian dating Russian or Ukrainian girl are fond of cooking, their delicatessens are really tasty. russian dating Russian lady will wait you after your work with russian dating your child, she will love you. She will do all flat housecleaning while you are at work, she would take care of your kid; family life with her will be like a fairy. Look russian dating at ordinary American russian dating woman and tell me her good russian dating characterizations. I think that you won't russian dating find them. American women are lazy and rude. They are fond of beer, cigarettes, simple stupid series on the TV and they prefer to discuss them with their girls. It isn't interesting to talk and live with them, they can't grow a kid. That's why really clever men don't want to get russian dating married on them. Russian or Ukrainian ladies are much better then American. So if you want to start a really good family life with really good lady, the best method for you is to find a russian dating woman in Russia or Ukraine. Nowadays there are lots of ways of dating in the web, so prospecting of Russian or Ukrainian girl will be really simple for you. Source: russian dating

The "good" guys???

You mean those that choose to ignore their natural given sex and adopt an anomalous lifestyle MAY win in 2012 or thereafter. Just keep it off the public school curriculum as a viable "alternative" lifestyle and name it something other than marriage. In general and as to the ease of CA constitutional amendments, I share your fear. I also share that fear for the US constitution.

Recognize out of state marriages?

Since some CA marriages are recognized as valid, does this mean that CA recognizes gay marriages from out of state? If so, this decision may have been influenced by secret cash transfers from Maine. It is a nice place to vacation and you can get married there.

Huh?

"You mean those that choose to ignore their natural given sex and adopt an anomalous lifestyle MAY win in 2012 or thereafter." I am guessing that you mean "sexual orientation" instead of "sex" but even then you're not making sense. What if someone's "natural given" sexual orientation is homosexual? Who the fuck are you to tell then that it isn't? Besides, Kevin Drum and thousands of other married and single heterosexuals oppose your preferred policy. Is mere support among heterosexuals for same-sex marriage enough to confer upon them the mantle of "anomalous lifestyle?" "Just keep it off the public school curriculum as a viable "alternative" lifestyle and name it something other than marriage." You've got something there for your first point. While proven viable, it's certainly not an alternative lifestyle at all. It's just some people who each want to marry the person they love. As for your second demand, nope. It's marriage. If you don't want your church to perform them, talk to your pastor or priest. Beyond that, get the fuck out of their way.

they need to get with it

i guess gays who wish to marry will have to move out of square-as-a-bear california to someplace more hip, like iowa. your pal, blake

Kind of expected it. The

Kind of expected it. The Cali Supremes decided that they would rather play Justice Delayed is Justice Denied and wait for the ballot box to solve this, rather than play "Let's be Target Practice for the Wingnuts".

as goes California

It used to be that California was the leader in life style issues. As Blake said, we'll have to look to Iowa now for what to wear, how to talk, what's cool.

What's cool

Well, you know, looking to the Cal Supreme Court for that probably wasn't a good idea to begin with.

I don't see things turning

I don't see things turning around in 2 years. If anything, it will be worse. Maybe NY and 1 or 2 states from the Northeast or PNW will make gay marriage legal, and then it will be over. The Dems will be on the ropes in 2 years because they won't do anything about reforming the economy, which is NOT going to fix itself, and is NOT going to get anything like good again without major tinkering. I'm not saying the R's will get their acts together by then, but the mood of the nation will definitely be uglier, and that's not a good thing when your civil rights are up for a vote at the tribal council. Besides that, recognition at the state level is good for a few things, but as long as the feds won't recognize them, it's definitely a fourth class citizenship perk.

in two years...

- The economy may or not may not be better. It probably will be. - More older folks, who care more about this non-issue, will have died. - More younger folks, who care much less, will have achieved voting age. - More states will have changed their status. - More and more married gay folks will have been going about their lives, not really being very revolutionary about it. These are inevitable changes, in the long run.

A poll came out yesterday

A poll came out yesterday for Rhode Island: 59% pro gay marriage legalization vs. 31% against. And RI is lousy with Catholics and blue-collar bohunks.

Painting a box ...

This decision now decided upon by the Supreme Court of California has ruled against the homosexual community and let the Proposition 8 vote by the people of California stand. Presently, this seems like a dark day for the homosexual community of California but am I the only one looking beyond and to the horizon? We know that it now seems quite clear that inevitably gay marriage will pass in either 2010 or 2012. The opposition (Yes on 8) camp is celebrating today’s victory and they have every right to but what I believe that they have not taken into account and what seems quite clear is the box they have painted themselves into. When gay-marriage passes in a few years, today’s decision by the California high court has completely removed the option of ever going back and requesting that the vote be overturned when the opposition camp so adamantly agreed and stood with the courts ruling on the 26th of May, 2009. The California Supreme Court cannot make two opposing decisions on the same argument. It’s obviously clear that the homosexual community of California by today’s ruling have decisively won the right to gay-marriage. Not today but most assuredly - tomorrow.

live by the tyranny of the majority die by it

It will be very interesting when a majority votes affirmatively for marriage equality in Maine later this year, and gives us momentum to do the same thing in California in 2010, while simultaneously electing a pro-marriage equality governor.

Entropy, Morality, Forgivness & Acceptance

Entropy and Morality In nature, things tend to disorder themselves. This is a simplistic way to describe "Entropy." Disparate temperatures in close proximity (ordered set of two temperatures) tend to reach equilibrium and disorder each other becoming one. We see it in our homes with a women’s and men’s role becoming less complimentary and nearly parallel. We see it in our careers with fewer specialized workers and more generalists. We see it in businesses sectors with fewer independent stores, more mega giant stores, merchandisers and corporations. We see it in every walk of life. We see the moral framework once enforced not only by law, but by neighborhoods and society in general, being shredded, and discarded. We witness each day the blurring of morality's lines and their ultimate removal from our everyday lives. Yes, our divine creator gave us free will. He also gave us that moral framework within which we are told to conform, thus casting aside our selfish, immoral and entropic tendencies. We all have that choice. As a society, gay marriage is just one example of entropy is winning over morality. Forgiveness but not Acceptance Christ teaches us love and forgiveness. He does not however tell us it is "ok" to continue our deviation from God's plan. He does not accept sin, but rejects it. All the while he does accept us and forgive us. But there is a catch. We are told to cast aside our weak impulses. We are told to repent. We are told to accept Christ and let him enter our lives. And when he does, the spirit strengthens our flesh and our will. And when that happens, the moral compass is restored. Struggling with Forgiveness (It's a human thing) We can love our gay friends, colleagues and relatives, just as Christ does. However, gay marriage is wrong. We are born with a certain set of plumbing. I suggest we discover why it is that people abandon that fact and seek out same sex relations. We don't go around teaching kids that alcoholism is ok. Why is there such a move afoot to teach them that choosing a homosexual lifestyle IS ok? We should accept all people as human beings. That is a tall challenge for some, present company included. However, we don’t have to accept their choices and behavior. We don’t have to accept gay marriage. To do so, further shreds the moral fabric of which we are all bound together. It further perpetuates the weakness of human flesh and the entropic trends in our society.

We are born with a certain set of plumbing.

I know I shouldn't encourage you. But have you ever considered shutting the fuck up?

Make an argument

A good one and perhaps I will. The fact is you'd much rather sling hostility my way. But since you are being hostile tell it to my face.

Let me see if I understand

Let me see if I understand this. Any gay marriage in the interregnum between the court decision and the referendum going into effect is valid, but thereafter none could be validly performed as the referendum in effect amended the state constitution. So suppose in 2010 a referendum again amends the state constitution to make gay marriages valid. Until 2012 when another referendum reverses it. Until 2014 . . . In theory, isn't the CA system set up to allow rolling constitutional amendments that validate a marriage in one time frame and invalidate them in another? This doesn't seem all that reasonable

Post new comment

Alternately, you may login to or register an account
The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <ul> <ol> <li> <blockquote>
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.

More information about formatting options

MoJo Comments: Send Us Your Feedback

We changed our spam software to better filter comments. Should you encounter any issues, please let us know.

Photo Essays

The chaos and humanity of war.
The craftspeople and musicians of Appalachia.
A selection of '70s ads depicting African-Americans.
As climate change melts the permafrost, native villages slip into the sea, taking a way of life with them.