Raw Power

| Tue Jul. 7, 2009 8:31 AM PDT

In a speech today in Russia, Barack Obama said  that "the pursuit of power is no longer a zero-sum game."  Dan Drezner isn't so sure:

If he had said, "The pursuit of prosperity is no longer a zero-sum game," I'd be fine with the passage.  I still think power is a zero-sum concept, however.  The two ideas are linked but hardly the same. 

I suppose that's true.  Even in a Thomas Barnett-ish world where all the big players gang up to police the world, it's prosperity and security that are positive sum, not raw power.  Anyone care to try and come up with a counterexample?

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Comments

It's becoming increasingly

It's becoming increasingly clear that Obama is a foreign policy lightweight. The Russians have all but thumbed their nose at Obama. First, on the eve of Obama's visit, Putin goes out of his way to praise Bush while uttering nothing about Obama. Then, Obama - of course - flubs what position Putin holds in the government. I guess the Teleprompter didn't get the memo that Medvedev is the president and Putin is prime minister. Lastly, the now famous picture with Medvedev tells exactly what the Russians think of Obama.

Obama now hails his nuclear warheads deal as something great, even though there are no details on how that deal will be enforced.

Obama believes the real word of foreign policy plays out like those grad school classes of yesteryear: everyone really talks in lofty political/philosophical terms. Dialogue is all that is needed to make everyone play nice together.

Heh.

At least Biden seems to have some semblance of foreign policy know-how. Too bad Obama won't listen.

a hard one

Dan's exactly right, unless we take power to mean something like human power over the cosmos, power to flourish, etc--which comes back to prosperity. In the context, maybe that's what Obama meant. But it's not the usual way of thinking about power in IR.

Time

For a given slice of time, power may be zero sum, but games are played over time. Prosperity and Security tend to increase the total power available.

EU

I would think the EU is a counter-example. If Germany, Britain, France, etc., were all still locked in intra-European conflicts, then their collective power on the world stage would be diminished. But there's not exactly a metric for "power," so it's kind of hard to say.

Power changes over time

I would say that states collectively had more power at the height of the cold war than they did, say, just after the fall of the Roman Empire. Unless you want to say that there were other players that were powerful enough at the fall of Rome to collectively make up the power of the superpowers in the cold war, it follows that power changes over time. And the distribution of any quantity that changes over time is not zero-sum.

Isn't prosperity power? If

Isn't prosperity power? If Russia didn't have any prosperity Putin would just be an agile and clever caveman manipulating a little clan.

Anyway, I'd say the amount of control governments have over their people, their economy, and world politics is absolutely not zero sum and dictatorial powers almost always end up without any power in the end. The EU has done remarkably well, and countries like North Korea, Zimbabwe, Iran matter a lot less than they would if they interacted with the world.

It's not just that "power"

It's not just that "power" isn't a zero-sum game - rather, power isn't one-dimensional.
There are some goals that a nation can achieve by military force, some that it can
achieve by economic and non-violent coercion, some that it can achieve by persuasion,
and some that it can't achieve by any means at all.

On the particular question of nuclear arsenals, the marginal utility of the last 5000
warheads in an arsenal of 15000 or so is actually negative: you're better off getting
rid of the damn things before they blow up by accident or get stolen. Personally, I
would argue that anything more than about 500 warheads is useless: if you've got
500, then even if an enemy has some amazing capability to shoot down 90%, you can
vaporize his major population centers with 20 warheads each at 88% probability.

It's appalling that the insanely high level of nuclear arsenals has persisted for 20 years
after the end of the Cold War (not that it made sense even then ...). This is a step in
the right direction, for which Obama should be applauded, but let's hope that further
steps will follow soon.

Depends on what you mean by "power"

As Richard Cownie said above, it depends on what kind of power you mean. If you mean only army-fighting-army power, then it is zero sum. If you mean, oh, for example, terraforming Mars, it need not be, with lots of examples in between.

Power, eh?

Power is not a zero-sum game. In the state of nature, where life is solitary, nasty, brutish, and short, nobody has any power. Then Leviathan comes, and engorges power to itself. This represents an increase in total power, albeit monopolized into the sovereign. Civilization creates power. More civilization creates more power, because more people must cooperate in more ways.

Between two sovereigns in the short run, power may well be a zero-sum game. But within sovereigns, and among sovereigns in the long run, power is positive-sum with civic complexity.

Power isn't just nuclear weapons.

I don't think we have to be fighting Russians in order to prove ourselves mightiest. If we look at the American experiment as the power of ideas - Jefferson talked about this with patents and copyrights - I don't have any fewer ideas in my head if I tell you about one of them, if we look at the power of ideas to change the world....what brings lasting change and evolution are the rightness of the idea, because that will spread... And is I believe what Obama talked about with the 'quiet force of progress' in his inauguration speech. (Power being directed force.)

If we look at the distribution and propagation of ideas as power... which ideas do people propagate over time, those are still not zero-sum, just because I believe something (policy-ish, not empirically-provable) to be true doesn't mean you can't believe something else. But a good idea has power.

I suppose you could look at which ideas are propagating and holding true over time and influencing more people. For instance, it was through the work of engineers at Berkeley that UNIX got out of the hands of wizards (via BSD license). And a derivative license (Apache) powered the innovation of web software that runs 100 million servers (and was also created in the bay area, initially ;-). Which is now powering the ability of Iranians to communicate with the rest of the world.

I'd say that's a far more powerful weapon than any F-22 bomber. And it's merely a tool. Hey. This is a great thing for free speech. We think that's integral to self-government. You want to add to the system? Great, learn how it works, and make it better. Please!

(And such an example might be pointed at when we San Francisco liberals are derided for being un-patriotic because we prefer code -both law and internet- to guns to make our points).

It seems like perhaps an

It seems like perhaps an attempt to redefine power away from traditional "we can manipulate x number of proxy states" or "we can destroy the world x times over" to something more along the lines of "we have a strong economy, advanced technology, and a free government that people want to participate in." Power, I guess, as attraction rather than leverage. Doesn't seem particularly clear from that passage, though.

Zero-sum?

Obama is wrong. More importantly, he will be ignored by Russian policymakers, who see (correctly, I believe) international relations as being about relative power relations, not the overall sum of power in the world system.

Power relations are zero-sum in the strict sense: an increase in relative power by one state reduces the relative power of other states, when we define power as the ability to affect other states' interests and effect their own. The fact that the sum of power may increase over time is irrelevant; changes within the power balance are still Pareto-optimal. (Potential power sources outside the Westphalian system -- e.g., Barnett's "Gap," transnational criminal organizations and international corporations -- may be interpreted as creating a Pareto-inefficient situation, but I would resist such a view.)

It is very different to say that a subset of actors can increase the sum of their power without affecting the relative power balance within the subset: that is trivially demonstrable and, while useful in the context of bilateral relations, says nothing about the larger pursuit of international power.

Now, it can be argued that my premises are flawed inasmuch as I stipulate that all power is prima facie coercive in nature or, more critically, that cross-border agreements and entanglements mean that exercising the coercive option will have negative effects on the exerciser. For example, China's continuing role as a sink for American overseas debt gives it coercive power over the American economy, but exercising that power would result in American economic collapse that would spread globally, along with RMB appreciation that would harm Chinese exports. To this, I would argue that (A) all coercive options carry negative costs, else they would be constantly exercised; and (B) coercive costs can change over time, making coercion more or less attractive.

The other counter-argument is that my thesis is irrelevant: what matters is how states choose to exercise coercion. Non-realist theories tend to ignore balance of power matters, arguing instead that the character counts more than capability. For example, a rise in American power should be viewed benignly by other states, because America is a noncoercive power, or at least a power whose interests are largely identical to those of other great- and middling- powers. (Bacevich criticized Mearsheimer's theory of offensive realism partially on these grounds, I believe.) This is probably where Obama is coming from: power gains need not be zero-sum because when America increases its power, it can be trusted not to use it against other states. However, just as we would find a similar argument from Ahmad-e-Nejad or Putin unpersuasive, other states don't seem to find this line of argument as persuasive as we Americans do.

A related criticism is that power theories tend to ignore the importance of actors within state: in other words, they hopelessly simplify matters by assuming a unitary state instead of the multiplicity of domestic actors that really dominate most foreign policy decisions. To return to Mearsheimer, his basic thesis is that the anarchic nature of the international system, coupled with the uncertainty of competitors' intentions under imperfect information, pushes policymakers to attempt hegemony, or to balance would-be hegemons. (This ineluctable requirement of the game is the "tragedy" of his book's title.) Although Mearsheimer can be criticized on a number of grounds, I think his basic thesis has profound theoretic power, even though his attempts to apply it have severe weaknesses. In the long run, then, all actors -- regardless of intent -- are pushed to the same result: minimize threats by maximizing power.

The problem with Obama's statement is that we are very much in a power-competitive state with Russia, which has led to overt (war with Georgia), covert (links between the Kremlin and "deep state" groups in Turkey), economic (Algeria and Nigeria), and diplomatic (Iran) competition with the US and its power-bloc allies. Pretending otherwise may be good optics, but it ignores reality, and no one in the Kremlin will be fooled.

Oversimplifying the concept

Send England of today (with a nuclear arsenal and modern technology) to face the Axis, I'd think England would be more powerful than any of its opponents. Yet I don't think you can say that England's power relative to other nations has increased in that time. (If so, at whose expense?) So no, on some level, I don't think power is zero sum. It seems to be increasing (globally.)

On the other hand, "power" is probably too complex a concept to be boiled down to Is/Is Not zero-sum. Often when we're thinking of power, we're thinking of relative power, which is zero-sum. But I think it would be equally misleading to define "power" in terms of relative power as well.

Increasing Power

First there was Adam and Eve. Then Eve had a baby, Cain. Now A & E have power over a third person, whereas there was no power previously, they now have power over (and responsibility for) a third person. Seems power hath increathed.

Percentage-wise, from before birth to after birth, power has remained the same at 50-50.

That's easy

tagged as: 

Simple counter example,
you have a war, then BOTH combatants lose power.

I think we have a problem here with what are units of power we are talking about to decide if there is a fixed amount of it or not.

Consider this mind game - imagine there is only one person in the world. Is that person all-powerful?

Mutual security is an

Mutual security is an obvious example of greater power for more than one party. It's not a zero sum game unless that's the way you play it.

My first thought was that

My first thought was that moving it up would cushion the impact - the campaign has three weeks to counteract. Pushing it back so it was filed after the election would have been a clearly partisan thing to do.

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