"Yes, But"
Charles Krauthammer writes today that he'd like to hold a reasoned discussion about end-of-life counseling. "We might start by asking Sarah Palin to leave the room," he says.
That's "close to reasonable," says Joe Klein. But no, it isn't.
Krauthammer is part of the swelling "Yes, but" crowd, and for my money these guys are infinitely worse than the flat-out nutters themselves.
I mean, at least nutters have the excuse of being nutters, right? They can be dismissed or mocked or yelled at or whatever. But everyone outside the nutter base understands that they're crazy.
Then there's the "Yes, but" contingent. Sober. Serious. Looking at all sides of the issue. Stroking their chins. Coming to conclusions.
And what are those conclusions? Well, golly, the nutters might be nuts, but they have a point! Allowing Medicare to reimburse doctors for advance care counseling might be the first tiny step toward turning them into junior Dr. Mengeles after all. Krauthammer bases this conclusion primarily on his belief that living wills are pretty much useless:
So why get Medicare to pay the doctor to do the counseling? Because we know that if this white-coated authority whose chosen vocation is curing and healing is the one opening your mind to hospice and palliative care, we've nudged you ever so slightly toward letting go.
It's not an outrage. It's surely not a death panel. But it is subtle pressure applied by society through your doctor. And when you include it in a health-care reform whose major objective is to bend the cost curve downward, you have to be a fool or a knave to deny that it's intended to gently point the patient in a certain direction, toward the corner of the sickroom where stands a ghostly figure, scythe in hand, offering release.
Subtle pressure indeed. The only thing that's subtle here is Krauthammer's faux evenhandedness. Up until two minutes ago, politicians and pundits across the political spectrum universally believed that advance care counseling was an entirely sane and uncontroversial practice, one that any compassionate society would encourage. Those same politicians and pundits knew perfectly well that it was never about guiding patients in any particular direction and has never been motivated by cost savings in any way. They knew that other countries reimburse for advance care planning — just like any other use of a doctor's time — and it hasn't led to any pressure, subtle or otherwise, to pull the plug on grandma.
They knew this. Until two minutes ago. But now they're pretending — subtly, temperately — that maybe it isn't true after all. And they're doing this not because they've changed their minds, but because they want to kill healthcare reform for political reasons and they don't care whether innocent bystanders get hurt in the process. Their "Yes, but" campaign might ensure that patients forevermore mistrust doctors who talk about advance care directives, but they also know that sober, serious, subtle op-eds endorsing this point of view are more likely to derail healthcare reform among the chattering classes than Sarah Palin's Facebook maunderings. It is intellectual venality of the first order.
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Comments
Flawed thesis
Kevin, there is a flaw in the premise of your article.
Namely, Charles Krauthammer IS a "nutter".
Sure, he can express himself more intelligibly than does Sarah Palin.
But he is every bit as much a purveyor of transparently phony rubbish and vicious, malicious, conscienceless lies as she is.
My problem with having
My problem with having Medicare pay for these treatments is related to your cost post.
Medicare and my insurance already pay for my consultation with the doctor. Talking to me about end of life has already been paid for, and all we are doing is allowing doctors to get paid twice for something they should already be providing and already have a way of billing for it.
Paying double for end of life consultations and similar bullshit check off the checkmark billing practices is what makes medical costs soar.
The docs should be given one set fee for consultation with their patient. That includes cholesterol talks, viagra discussions, and end of life.
I have a problem with what you expect
Why the hell should the taxpayer pay for your viagra discussions?
Well, let's try to have a
Well, let's try to have a conversation that, because it is an interesting question.
May I ask,
Are you
a) upset I didn't include some sort of indication of a gender reciprocal treatment, perhaps something like vaginal pain, or something about female desire, or perhaps something about female reproduction
b) upset that the government would pay for anyone's issues regarding reproduction or sexuality?
c) other?
try to keep up
optical weenie - what an irrelevant distraction. apparently you are unaware that most insurance companies reimburse Viagra and doctor's visits concerning Viagra. If you are insured right now, your premium dollars go towards it. There has been back-and-forth in the Medicare world about whether Medicare will reimburse.
The bottom line is that doctors treat a lot of things where American's puritan instincts might kick in. But, erectile dysfunction is no joke for many, and Viagra is one of the treatments.
Apparently Kevin you’ve
Apparently Kevin you’ve missed the point of the ENTIRE HEALTHCARE DEBATE. You said, “Up until two minutes ago, politicians and pundits across the political spectrum universally believed that advance care counseling was an entirely sane and uncontroversial practice”. So what changed two minutes ago? ObamaCare. There is a huge difference between having a private conservation about advanced care counseling with your doctor, paid by your health insurance or god forbid out of pocket, and having that same conversation paid by the Federal government.
That is what is at issue here. Medicare is already running $35,000,000,000,000 in unfunded liabilities. Add to that 15, 30, 40 million people the Public Option will cover and it HAS to result in scarcity. IT HAS TO. And so it is a completely reasonable to assume that government will be motivated to reduce costs where they can- or face bankrupting the country. And with 60% of Medicare being spent on the last 6 months of life it is even more reasonable to assume that advance care counseling will include a push, a nudge towards the exit.
You can not give assurances that end of life counseling won’t include a hasty retreat to the grave. Under a government run program (see Maine, Massachusetts and other states that offer universal care and are going bust) we simply won’t be able to afford a long, slow exit. And half the people in this country are just god-damn independent enough not to want some government agency telling them when to turn off the lights.
As long as the rest of the Nutroots don’t get this, they can’t address the issue seriously. Which makes their side losers in this important debate.
And to Secular Animist- Hey, grow up already.
Hey Got Change!
My my you are particularly productive today! Imagine, 4 and a half more paragraphs of what you have been repeating all week.
Get a life idiot.
But those are the core
But those are the core issues and until they are addressed rather than being ignored they are worth repeating, again and again. How can you enact healthcare reform without addressing them? Obama ran on controlling healthcare costs but then switched positions in the middle of the game. I think it is worth reminding the Nutroots of the consequences of what they are supporting.
Besides, I enjoy watching them embarrass themselves with their hypocrisy and name calling... and their inability to put up a good argument.
Result in scarcity?
Adding 15, 30, 40 million people "HAS to result in scarcity"?
Maybe if someone was proposing adding those 40 million people to the planet, sure. Thing is, they are already here.
The scarcity (and rationing) you are talking about already exists, rather obviously.
Now, could you please argue about why it is appropriate to confine the effects of this scarcity to those with less money? Oh, wait, I thought it was "ObamaCare" that was going to ration in the basis of productivity in society. I must have been confused. Resume your regularly scheduled ass-talking.
For gotchange: Read Drum's
For gotchange: Read Drum's article again and then read your comment again.
Your comment is the perfect yes, but... There are no death panels.
What's weirdest is that as far as I can tell from my downloaded copy of HR3200 via
google for Thomas Library of Congress follow link, select printer friendly... there are no panels or committees of any type that deal directly with a patient OR deal directly with a doctor or health care practitioner about an individual patient. None.
There are national level committees for the following, all of which have public comment periods and other procedural guards.
1. To specify which treatments go into the essential, enhanced, or premium plan that will be offered.
2. To see if advance care directives can be added to the pqri program. This program pays a bonus to physicians who report that they've met certain quality standards. In the case of section 1233, that's how many patients you've had consultations with and how many cases were those directives followed. Google pqri. There's nothing about the nature of the advance care directive. And this would probably be peanuts.
Go read it... this is what death penalty Betsy backed up to on the Jon Stewart show.
3. Committee for comparative efficiency research. It does research on whether one treatment work better than another
These are the three that have attracted lies and distortions.
Krauthammer's imagined incentives are backwards
The problem with Krauthammer's argument is pretty clear in this passage:
"To offer government reimbursement to any doctor who gives end-of-life counseling -- whether or not the patient asked for it -- is to create an incentive for such a chat. [...] Do you think the doctor will go on and on about the fantastic new million-dollar high-tech gizmo that can prolong the patient's otherwise hopeless condition for another six months? Or do you think he's going to talk about -- as the bill specifically spells out -- hospice care and palliative care and other ways of letting go of life?"
Really? For the sake of argument, let's assume that doctors are coming at this issue with an eye toward nothing but profit, as Krauthammer seems to fear. Which of the two scenarios that Krauthammer depicts is going to be more profitable for doctors -- the counseling session that they can have with a given patient once every five years (or at the end of that patient's life), or the procedures they can order with "the fantastic new million-dollar high-tech gizmo that can prolong the patient's otherwise hopeless condition for another six months"? Unless the government is thinking about some awfully handsome reimbursements for those counseling sessions, Krauthammer doesn't have to worry his pretty little head.
>15, 30, 40 million people
>15, 30, 40 million people the Public Option will cover and it HAS to result in scarcity. IT HAS TO. And so it is a completely reasonable to assume that government will be motivated to reduce costs where they can- or face bankrupting the country...
Um, no, it doesn't. We've been doing just fine up here with fully government-funded medicare for 50 years now. There are relatively minor problems with elective surgery waits, but nothing like the lies told about our system in your media.
This is firmly evidenced by the level of support for expanding our fully public system vs going partially private - 86% of Canadians support our public system. No politician dares speak against it, no matter how conservative.
That's what you're really afraid of, GotChange, you and your ilk are scared that a socialized system will succeed, not that it'll fail. And if it does pass, I'm sure conservatives down there will pull out all the stops to handicap and corrupt it, to try to bring about its failure.
But "the public option" has worked very well for two generations just north of you. The cost is drastically less than your system, with better outcomes. And we're starting to get annoyed up here at the badmouthing and attacks on our system lately, a system that we are in fact, despite the lies, exceedingly happy with.
And the "government wants to kill grandma" crap you're trying to defend just isn't an issue and never has been. It's pure paranoid fantasy. 50 years, and it's never been an issue.
What he said.
And looking at Charles Krauthammer hurts my eyes.
Got Drivel
Got Change wrote: "And to Secular Animist- Hey, grow up already."
If by "grow up" you mean I should politely pretend that the inane drivel and blatant lies that dishonest ideologues like you and Charles Krauthammer spout constitutes legitimate "debate", I think not.
The truth is that
The truth is that end-of-life conversations do save money. They save money that would be wasted on futile, and often painful, care. The only disgrace here is that politicians - the same ones who will vote against universal healthcare because it costs too much - are going to tmake one of the central means of addressing that cost off-limits for future discussion.
What a weird point Got
What a weird point Got Changes tries to raise. End of life care costs too much, so government will not want to finance it. Ummm. OK. Assume this is true. So who is financing this expensive end of life care now? Insurance companies? Well, then, if you are all worried about that, decline the public option and buy the damn insurance. Nobody is stopping you. Hell, if you are rich then pay for the end of life care out of pocket.
I mean seriously - you don't like the public option because it might cost more taxes but you also don't like it because it will try to save money.
The sad thing is that you are completely unaware of how twisted your logic is. You have no reasoning or any train of thought - you are simply finding different ways to state your premise - that government anything is bad. Simply restating your premise to try to make what looks like an argument twists you into internal contradictions.
No offense but many high school debaters can argue a lot better than you do. I think you should give it up and try some other hobby.
Tripp
'Twas ever thus.
Not that I disagree an iota, but the tone of this post seems to imply that Mr. K (and Mr. Will, et alii) sometimes engage in some other activity than intellectual dishonesty. This is their bread an butter, and one could (and someone no doubt does) raise a similar point against every one of their columns.
Charles Krauthammer is, and
Charles Krauthammer is, and always will be, a nutter. He is the scary one. I have relatives that quote him as the truth. The man is smart enough to know when he is being deceptive from his bully pulpit, so I give him no credibility.
If you want to know what
If you want to know what Charles Krauthammer thinks about any issue, just imagine what the meanest, most hateful, utterly dishonest man in the world would have to say about it, and there you are.
Whatever does the greatest harm to the greatest number of people, for the greatest most wasteful cost, for the least benefit for the least number of people, Charles Krauthammer is for.
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