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Quote of the Day
| Sat Sep. 12, 2009 10:07 AM PDT
From Sen. Jim DeMint, commenting on the demonstrators in Washington DC carrying signs that call Nancy Pelosi a Nazi and Barack Obama a communist:
This is not some kind of radical right-wing group. I just hope the Congress, the Senate and the president recognize that people are afraid of what’s going on.
Uh huh. That really means a lot coming from a guy like DeMint.
But what I'm really curious about is the guy in this photo with the Nancy Pelosi sign. I'm trying to figure it out. The other signs all sport some pretty standard fare (Chicago thugs, socialism, Acorn, cap-and-tax, etc. etc.), but what's this guy trying to say about Pelosi? That she dreams of Nazis? That she thinks about Nazis? That she's secretly a Nazi?
And then there's the even more puzzling "ASTROTURF!!!!" business. Is Nancy Pelosi an astroturf Nazi? What would an astroturf Nazi be? Or is he suggesting that conservatives can defeat Pelosi via an astroturf campaign? Somebody help me out on this.
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Comments
"Anyone suggesting...
Submitted by Davis X. Machina on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 10:17 AM PDT.
...that right-wingers casually toss around Nazi references is the victim of an astroturfing campaign, which astroturfing, by the way, is something we never do" is one guess.
Or "Anyone suggesting that we employ astroturfing campaigns is a Nazi"?
It's not shocking considering the entire movement, or 'movement', could fairly rally and march under a banner that reads "We're madder than hell -- but mostly very, very confused -- and we're not going to take it any more -- as soon as we work out what 'it' is!"
hmm...
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 10:21 AM PDT.
"She says we're Nazis, and that we're just a bunch of astroturf. So let's embrace the label 'Astroturf'!"
Maybe?
Well, Beck likes to talk
Submitted by Travis2 (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 10:45 AM PDT.
Well, Beck likes to talk about "we surround you", so perhaps there's a thought there that the Democratic majority is fake in some way. Maybe if you searched around in the media matters archives you could find a reference, but that's akin to sewer work.
Their obsession with ACORN is still something I marvel at. That's in one of the other signs.
Pelosi claimed that
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 10:45 AM PDT.
Pelosi claimed that protestors were “carrying swastikas and symbols like that" to a town meetings on healthcare. She was, i believe, the first to refer to protesters as astroturf as opposed to saying that it was a were grassroots movement. It was just her way of denigrating anyone not drinking the Kool Aid.
I think the sign works. It basically holds her out to be the fool that she it.
thanks
Submitted by Travis2 (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 10:50 AM PDT.
thanks for the translation, pilgrim.
for the "Jesus is the messiah - not Obama", is there a real belief that you guys think Obama's supporters (like me) believe he is any kind of a messiah? I'm honestly confused by this.
Dog whistles for morons.
Submitted by jrw on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 11:00 AM PDT.
Glad to know you can hear the high-pitched whine the rest of us can't pick up.
Clearly this commenter could have been the sign's designer....
Submitted by veblen (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 3:00 PM PDT.
.....I however had to do a bit of Googling before I came to the same conclusion.
Pelosi mentioned the prevalence of Nazi symbolism at the Tea Parties without explicitly saying that the protesters were Nazis.
On the other hand, see did explicitly,and accurately, call the Tea Party organizers astroturfers.
Hence the thought bubble on the poster suggesting that she was thinking that the Teabaggers were Nazis when she said they were astroturfers.
BTW, while I was doing my 60 seconds of Googling to piece this together, I came across a blog titled Nazi Pelosi. So there is at least one deranged person out there who thinks Pelosi is a Nazi.
astro
Submitted by rbe1 (not verified) on Sun Sep. 13, 2009 10:41 AM PDT.
Learn to spell, and then learn to think.
Astroturf v Grassroots
Submitted by citipearl on Fri Sep. 18, 2009 7:08 AM PDT.
For your enlightenment, "astroturf" is the term used for corporate-funded protests that are organized to look like they are grassroots movements. The recent flood of protests from the right have been repeatedly shown to be put together by professional public relations groups in the guise of non-profit organizations who are run by people who are very political and whose agendas benefit the status quo.
Using symbols that fan the flames of hatred and cheapens the much needed policy debates (and,makes those who use these symbols rather than engaging in dialogue guilty of using tactics used by fascists). This works to protect those who want to stop change from happening because they are raking in billions of dollars with our current system of government and policies -- and, sadly, these same policies hurt those who are out there taking part in Tea Bag Parties, etc.
People need to take a deep breath, stop tossing around labels and names that denigrate those they oppose and listen and talk for a change. We have more in common than we have differences and can get things done that will benefit us all if we change the tone of the discussion.
Hurting in the head.
Submitted by Heather (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 10:45 AM PDT.
Look you're trying to make sense of the nonsensical. All that leads to is a very very sore head. These folks are out there and are afraid of everything. The irony is that Nazism owed its very success to the ability to instill fear and loathing of the type these people exude. They just wouldn't see that of course.
Back in August sometime, she
Submitted by A J (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 10:47 AM PDT.
Back in August sometime, she made a reference to wing nuts showing up at town hall meetings with Nazi signs. Hannity and the other assclowns immediately started yelling that she had called citizens who showed up at the meeting Nazi's. Like K O said, these astroturfers need to go before a stupid panel.
This is the perfect example of Republican messaging
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 10:49 AM PDT.
The right went crazy when Nancy mentioned that people were showing up at the town halls with nazi signs. The right turned it into Nancy calling them Nazis. When I went to my congresswoman's townhall, the protesters had this "trigger words" which would start them all booing. The right is great a programming these trigger messages. There aren't complete thoughts here, just knee jerk responses. This sign is a perfect example. If you haven't heard all the right wing talk show rhetoric, it make no sense.
The Nazis invented
Submitted by Fnord (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 11:06 AM PDT.
The Nazis invented Astroturf!!!!, Pelosi is a Nazi, and evil Democrats decorate their patios with Astroturf!!!! Can't you see the conspiracy? If not, Glen Beck will diagram it on his chalkboard for us next week.
The Nazis DID invent
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 12:13 PM PDT.
The Nazis DID invent Astroturf, and when we consider what it has done to America's Football, it's deeply ironic and sad that we have fallen to the Third Reich.
Here's the connection, as googled:
"AstroTurf was co-invented in 1965 by Donald L. Elbert, James M. Faria and Robert T. Wright, employees of Monsanto Company. It was patented in 1967 and originally sold under the name "Chemgrass". It was renamed AstroTurf by the Patent Company employee John A. Wortmann after its first well-publicized use at the Houston Astrodome stadium in 1966."
...
" I.G. Farbenfabriken, the aforementioned financial core of the Hitler regime and the key supplier of poison gas to the Nazi racial extermination program. After the Holocaust, the German chemical firm joined with American counterparts in the development of chemical warfare agents and founded the “Chemagrow Corporation” in Kansas City, Missouri, a front that employed German and American specialists on behalf of the U.S. Army Chemical Corps.13
Dr. Otto Bayer, I.G.’s research director, had a binding relationship with Monsanto chemists.14 In the post-war period, Dr. Bayer developed and tested chemical warfare agents with Dr. Gerhard Schrader, the Nazi concocter of Tabun, the preferred nerve gas of the SS. Schrader was also an organophosphate pioneer, and tested the poison on populated areas of West Germany under the guise of killing the insects that were ruining Deutscher Fussball und Cricket-Bund"
I think your original comment was in jest, but as usual, truth is far stranger and scarier than fiction. I only wish more people knew of the Nazi/IG Farben/Monsanto/Astroturf connection. It explains Jimmy Hoffa's disappearance, and why it's foolish to look for him under the Houston Astrodome which was the first well publicized used of AstroTurf.
I like the way you think!
Submitted by Trippp on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 3:13 PM PDT.
Anonymous,
I like the way you think . . . and research. You should grab a handle and stick around for awhile. I was trying to find a funny way to use the word "cosmoturf" from the Soviets but you did a much better job of finding a connection.
Bravo!
Glenn Beck
Submitted by citipearl on Fri Sep. 18, 2009 7:32 AM PDT.
Glenn Jones has had a life filled with tragedy and challenges. From what I can find, the highest level of education he has achieved was high school (plus a semester in seminary school). He has great passion about his points of view, but does not appear to have the kind of education that would give gravitas to his opinions. He has an emotional appeal and has tapped into people's frustration with the political process and leaders who they perceive do not represent their beliefs.
That said, a majority of Americans elected Barack Obama as President and Nancy Pelosi (who was then elected by other members of Congress as the Speaker of the House). Both Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi are well educated AND have earned their stripes in public service.
Why would you want to listen to someone who makes emotional appeals without the benefit of education and experience over people who do? If you were picking a winning sports team, wouldn't you want the best qualified people on your team?
Glenn Beck couldn't get elected dog catcher, so why is he taking up so much air time? Why in the world is anyone listening to this man?
No, it's all much simpler.
Submitted by cld (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 11:43 AM PDT.
No, it's all much simpler. They're idiots.
They just pick words they've heard somewhere that sound impressive and string them together, usually words others have been saying about them.
The sign on the right,
Submitted by JS (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 11:48 AM PDT.
The sign on the right, "TRADE FREEDOM FOR SECURITY... YOU WILL HAVE NEITHER" is one the left has used as well. It seems that, depending on context (illegal wiretapping vs. public option in health care) it can be used by either side.
Only -- of course, a public option increases your options, and thus your freedom. So -- another sign that makes no sense.
If these people could think straight they wouldn't be there in the first place.
Ben Franklin quote
Submitted by Sam Gamgee (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 12:11 PM PDT.
Probably a good bet that the guy holding the sign quoting Ben Franklin was cursing those who protested the last administrations efforts to infringe on the public's civil liberties(appropriate use in my opinion). Not sure how the quote is supposed to be applied with the current healthcare reform.
The overall narrative these
Submitted by JS (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 12:56 PM PDT.
The overall narrative these people are marching to is that the government under Obama is making a power grab in health care (by interfering with the free market and pushing for a public option) and elsewhere. Remember, Reagan re-defined "freedom" to mean "free market" and "no government involvement". But they seem to like it when the government gets involved in war and illegal wiretapping -- in fact, they cannot get enough of that.
for tenthers health care is a right not a privilege
Submitted by cld (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 11:49 AM PDT.
It occurs to me,
States trying to object to healthcare under the 10th Amendment are putting themselves in the position of trying to deny an option for their citizens that will be freely available to every citizen in the country.
By opposing it as an issue of sovereignty or a state right they characterize the matter of the option, health care, as itself a right.
By objecting in this way, though they inevitably fail, they tacitly admit the whole argument that health care is a right.
Perhaps we should set up a fund to help them in their effort.
where are the doctors who can treat them?
Submitted by cld (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 11:56 AM PDT.
We're really scared! We're really scared!
If these people suffer such a singular variety of anxiety disorders, where are the doctors who can treat them?
Communication intended to degrade the viewers health
Submitted by cld (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 12:00 PM PDT.
Glenn Beck, in exploiting susceptible peoples' obvious anxiety disorders is himself a threat to national health.
Where is the FCC? Shouldn't they have a rule about something like this? Communication intended to degrade the viewers health?
Nazi
Submitted by E L (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 12:05 PM PDT.
"Somebody help me out on this." No, thank you.
The picture accompanying the
Submitted by Art Eclectic on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 12:07 PM PDT.
The picture accompanying the post should be captioned "People with health insurance protesting to keep everyone else out of the pool."
And the Flag shirt..
Submitted by Peter VE (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 12:29 PM PDT.
Shouldn't he be arrested for desecrating the flag?
I can't explain the
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 12:38 PM PDT.
I can't explain the "ASTROTURF!!!" bit (or anything else, really), but my first (and only) take was that the picture showed Nancy Pelosi thinking that the teabaggers themselves were Nazis.
darned liberal finding equivalence
Submitted by gphatty (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 12:44 PM PDT.
Sometimes I wonder if this is what is seemed like to the conservative movement when they were in charge and they saw me and other liberal, progressive people protesting, and they couldn't make sense of our signs, motives, etc. (Granted, they typically reacted with: "Traitors! Cowards!" and other invectives instead . . .) I don't ever think they ever understood Billionaires for Bush, or any protesters with puppets, etc.
Not that I feel they have any ground to stand on with either such a comparison, or their own odd motivations, but I just can't help but feel that the bridge between our differing world-views might just be too big to be overcome -- even by Obama.
Maybe particularly by Obama. He just seems to bring out the worst in them. Ah, well. Enough false equivalences and back to agitating legislators.
Astroturf
Submitted by mickeya (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 12:45 PM PDT.
I think he is simply implying, rather inartfully, that her face is artificial looking.
Conservatives think Astroturf is a compliment
Submitted by PTate in MN on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 12:57 PM PDT.
In the poster, a puzzled Nancy Pelosi wonders if they are Nazis, but, no! the laugh is on her. This is a true grassroots movement to overthrow the legitimate but oppressive American government. Power to the People!
It was called an Astroturf movement by someone to capture the idea of a fake grassroots movement manufactured by the conservative movement.
However, Conservatives probably think Astroturf is better than grass. Only environuts would want to deal with real grass; Real grass has to be fed, watered, weeded, maintained. Real grass can be killed, can be cut, can be trimmed. But Astroturf, now, there's a deal. That totally fake, tough plastic surface is impermeable, and it lasts forever. Nothing grows there.
In fact, Astroturf is a nice metaphor for Conservative's tough, fake, lifeless ideology.
actually the crowd looks kind of pathetic
Submitted by J. Frank Parnell on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 1:47 PM PDT.
The crowd looks pretty pathetic compared to the one at the inauguration, not to mention pretty wonder bread white. Weren’t these the people who where always saying “America, love it or leave it” when there guy is in charge. Maybe they should take their own advice.
better late than never
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 1:56 PM PDT.
The Money Party loves this chaos. (We always get what the Money Party wants us to have so we have this name calling, lying, insinuating, mob mentality at this time.)
All this uproar is a diversion so that no one is looking at or blaming the finance industry for our economic woes. The demonstrations and talking heads want you to look in the wrong place. Might also have to do with this special supreme court matter effecting the future of corporate free speech which diminishes individual rights.
"Look at this, don't look at that", where 'that' is always the important thing.
// No, it's all much
Submitted by Cam Winston (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 2:20 PM PDT.
// No, it's all much simpler. They're idiots. ///
Which is why they should pay for your doctor bills....because you're so much smarter than them, you need the government to take care of you.
Sorry, not enough time has passed since you guys lost a presidential election because your comrades in Palm Beach county were too stupid to vote for the right person for you to go around calling your political opponents "idiots".
Keep the government hands off my Medicare!
Submitted by jrw on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 3:36 PM PDT.
One of your teabagger heroines uttered that immortal line. I think that makes her an idiot, doesn't it? And, by your logic, I'm paying for her doctor bills.
That's the best you've got?
Submitted by elmo on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 8:05 PM PDT.
Weak. Comparing rational thinking people with common sense who got conned by goofy ballots to the idiots who think, irrationally, that our president is the anti-Christ...priceless...
What a bunch of ignorant
Submitted by Elizabelle (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 3:17 PM PDT.
What a bunch of ignorant people. Really, really sad. Like it or not, though, they are going to get dragged into the late 20th century, at least. Not that they know their history or anything, though.
Cam Cigarette, Huh? There
Submitted by Trippp on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 3:21 PM PDT.
Cam Cigarette,
Huh? There was some noise in the signal. Are you trying to say there is a grace period before one may call an idiot an idiot?
I'm thinking you are trying to insult me in a clever way but I must admit I'm not getting it.
Can you rephrase?
Thanks,
I never understood the puppets myself
Submitted by Cranky Observer (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 3:45 PM PDT.
> or any protesters with puppets, etc.
I never understood the puppets or stiltwalkers myself.
Cranky
Obama is not the Messiah, but then
Submitted by Davis X. Machina on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 4:09 PM PDT.
Beck isn't exactly Beck.
Do any of you liberals
Submitted by Another Brad (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 4:51 PM PDT.
Do any of you liberals honestly think several hundred people showing up to demonstrate is "Astroturf"? I mean, generally the left is the one with thousands of identical pre-printed signs, identical SEIU shirts, paid-for buses to get people to show up, etc, so maybe it's just projection. But I don't see a whole lot of coordination in the pictures. Just what exactly is supposed to be Astroturfed about it? The coordination or organization? Isn't that you know... community organizing?
Union Rallies/MoveOn
Submitted by Bruce Webb (not verified) on Sun Sep. 13, 2009 8:55 AM PDT.
The Left is generally pretty open about its organizing. Even massive and chaotic events like the WTO protests in Seattle are chaotic because of all the different groups organizing their various turnouts.
This rally was organized by Freedom Works and heavily promoted by Fox on the basis of a proposal by Glenn Beck. Did it tap into existing and often genuine anger? Of course. Was it a spontaneous gathering of American Patriots wanting Their Country Back. Well no. It was a corporate funded and corporate sponsored rally.
Which is fine. But it is the pretense that these Citizen Rallies are something that they are not is what makes it Astroturf. When the SEIU organizes a rally they are proud to have as many members wearing SEIU t-shirts as possible. Because the Left doesn't fetishize individualism in the way the Right does, we are fully aware that we are on this planet and in this country together and that collective action is often necessary to advance broader goals.
community organizing?
Submitted by tpx on Sun Sep. 13, 2009 12:09 PM PDT.
Capitalist collective media manipulation.
I can interpret the Pelosi
Submitted by AnonymousVari (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 5:27 PM PDT.
I can interpret the Pelosi sign:
Freedom is just another word for no brain-cells left to lose.
I find this a pretty
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 5:30 PM PDT.
I find this a pretty pathetic turnout, considering an entire television news channel has been hyping this every day for weeks.
Not to mention, for people who hate "big government," I wonder how many of the white hairs in this crowd have turned down Medicare?
Pelosi picture
Submitted by lsheldon on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 6:15 PM PDT.
Note that that seems to be the only profesionally produced poster in view.
I think the idea is to get Nancybotux, the word "Nazis, and the word "astroturf" linked in a way that allows denialibility no matter what.
I have an antidote for those
Submitted by John Hansen (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 6:24 PM PDT.
I have an antidote for those of you who are confused about the signs - spend a little time and actually watch some FOX news or listen to Rush, Prager, or Hannity and you would understand a little better.
Those of you who stick inside your little liberal intellectual bubbles will not understand.
Those of you who dismiss the political exercise of millions of independent freedom loving private citizens as an ignorant parade of manipulated pawns, will not understand.
Finally those of you who are so committed to the theory of the vast intellectual superiority of liberalism that you just can't imagine a Ph.D in physics, such as myself, being a conservative, will not understand.
I feel sorry for you. When someone does not understand the point of view of his ideological opponent there are basically two possibilities.
1. His ideological opponent does not have a rational point of view.
2. His ideological opponent does have a rational point of view and intellectual laziness and commitment to the "I am correct, so those who disagree with me must be fools" style of thinking, makes it impossible for him to understand his opponent.
My honest opinion is that most of the commenters on this board have chosen abide inside the confines of possibility number 2. I just want to invite you to take off your ideological glasses for just a second. consider conservatism, and maybe enjoy life a little more.
Life is more fun when you exit the bubble.
Why yes, those angry fat
Submitted by AnonymousVari (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 7:00 PM PDT.
Why yes, those angry fat people do look like fun, really. I can see now that I have missed out in life. I look back on all those Munich beer-halls I avoided, and I want to weep How much richer my life would have been, if I had listened to Limbaugh and bought myself some jackboots!
I Take It You Don't Understand the Signs, Either
Submitted by Barbara (not verified) on Sat Sep. 12, 2009 7:50 PM PDT.
"Life is more fun when you exit the bubble."
Good advice that conservatives should take. Being perpetually angry at the hobgoblins in their minds can't be fun.
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