Fox and the White House
Just a few minutes ago I emailed a friend that I thought it was probably a good idea for Obama's folks to take some shots at Fox News, but that "keeping it up would make him look whiny and unpresidential. He's gotten the conversation kicked off, and that's all he can do. He should now drop it and let everyone else keep it going." Then I read this:
In a sign of discomfort with the White House stance, Fox’s television news competitors refused to go along with a Treasury Department effort on Tuesday to exclude Fox from a round of interviews with the executive-pay czar Kenneth R. Feinberg that was to be conducted with a “pool” camera crew shared by all the networks. That followed a pointed question at a White House briefing this week by Jake Tapper, an ABC News correspondent, about the administration’s treatment of “one of our sister organizations.”
This is really inexcusable. If the White House wants to have a public feud with Fox News, that's fine. It's a political decision, and they'll either win or lose on a political basis. But excluding them from the press pool displays an appalling lack of judgment. Someone in the press office needs to take a deep breath and rethink exactly how far it's appropriate to take this.
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If they're not a legitimate news agency?
If the Republican party created a "The Republican News Agency" should they be granted press access to all press events? I think the obvious answer to this is no. Isn't that, in affect, what Fox News is, a branch of the Republican party? If you agree that they are merely carrying water for particular point of view they are not a legitimate news agency and should not be granted the access of a legitimate news agency.
blah blah blah
This seems like very calculated smokescreen politics to me. While the talking heads are blabbering about the White House's feud with Fox, there is actual progress being made on the health care front, on financial reform, and hopefully on climate change. It's amazing what you can get done if the press doesn't get in your way.
But they weren't excluded. Fox are just a lying bunch of c$%^s!
From TPM:
Feinberg did a pen and pad with reporters to brief them on cutting executive compensation. TV correspondents, as they do with everything, asked to get the comments on camera. Treasury officials agreed and made a list of the networks who asked (Fox was not among them).
But logistically, all of the cameras could not get set up in time or with ease for the Feinberg interview, so they opted for a round robin where the networks use one pool camera. Treasury called the White House pool crew and gave them the list of the networks who'd asked for the interview.
The network pool crew noticed Fox wasn't on the list, was told that they hadn't asked and the crew said they needed to be included. Treasury called the White House and asked top Obama adviser Anita Dunn. Dunn said yes and Fox's Major Garrett was among the correspondents to interview Feinberg last night.
So just to summarize...
Fox made up a story about not being treated as a respectable news organization and then pitched a tantrum about it. Because that's how respectable news organizations operate, you know.
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Why Inexcusable?
And how do you recommend combatting the cancer that is Fox?
What's so Special about Fox?
I doubt the White House would let Wayne and Garth of Wayne's World TV News participate in the pool, either.
Well, President Obama did
Well, President Obama did call on the Huffington Post at a press conference, so maybe he would.
I really have to disagree
I really have to disagree with you Kevin, which is pretty rare. There is simply no reason the White House should be expected to subject themselves to questioning by people that have no interest in developing facts and stories reported on a straight basis, which Fox does not. You don't see administration officials being forced to sit down with Michelle Malkin or Hugh Hewitt (sp?) on a regular basis so why should you expect them to do the same with Fox? Fox has no God given right to an interview.
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Serious question:
Who, exactly, has a right to press pool displays?
Define Members of the Press
Who decided that Fox was a valid member of the press? Who gets to decide that Fox is not a valid member of the press? Can I set up my own agency and claim myself a member of the press, with White House access? Do I just have to add "News" to my name?
I don't think you can treat
I don't think you can treat FOX like a normal news org when they promulgate misinformation and at times appear to promote violent revolution. They lie, they make things up - it's not merely bias. I think you need to sideline it. Fox is not a legitimite news organization and people know thaqt. Does National Inquirer get to be part of the pool?
Guckert is your sister
This was a stupid move by the administration because it creates an unbecoming clamor about access by a free press, even though FOX News can only be loosely defined as a journalistic enterprise. However, the reply to Jake Tapper should have been, "Guckert is your sister."
Clearly a misstep. The goal
Clearly a misstep.
The goal is to minimize Fox's influence on independent voters, not to make Fox a martyr. This just reinforces the victimization meme that is so popular with right-wingers these days and elevates Fox's position.
Why should the Administration waste their time with a specific political activist group because that group calls itself a news organization?
You didn't see the Bush admin answering questions from Huffington Post - or the New York Times - and neither answers questions from Air America or Green Press or whatnot.
I don't remember The
I don't remember The Washington Times standing in solidarity with The NYT when Bush 43 froze them out.
Say Vhat?
Kev, usually you're spot on, but I think your comment is way off. Of course Fox should be left out of the news conferences and interviews -- they're not a legitimate news organization. I think it's even more ridiculous that Jake Tapper called Fox a "sister" organization -- aren't these guys like Tapper supposed to be competing against Fox? Shouldn't Tapper feel a little relief that the competition is getting the shaft?
The Bush Administration
The Bush Administration allowed whores into the press pool. I guess Kevin wants the Obama Administration to keep that policy in place.
Didn't fox refuse to carry
Didn't fox refuse to carry the Presidents address on Health Care, while all other news networks did carry the broadcast. Nuf said.
The WH is merely whacking the nose of the puppy who has pooed on the carpet one too many times. Fox will be let back in the house, but on a short leash soon enough.
A nose whacking way overdue, BTW.
Bush cut funding for NPR cause it was a liberal new outfit. Elections have consequences.
And Fox, such a ficking drama queen, the entire GOP in fact. Find a legit candidate and start playing the game instead of whining all the time.
"The goal is to minimize
"The goal is to minimize Fox's influence on independent voters, not to make Fox a martyr. This just reinforces the victimization meme that is so popular with right-wingers these days and elevates Fox's position." [g. powell]
I don't see it this way. If I'm an independent voter and I see Fox go unchallenged, then I give them more credibility. If I see the White House calling a spade a spade, I'm more inclined to go along with the White House. Ignoring Fox boosts their credibility. Telling the truth about Fox, and backing that up with action, is best...
Maybe I wasn't clear.
I approve of the White House saying that Fox is not a news channel -- because it's true and also effective strategy. But I think they went too far with this press pool business because it forces other organizations to defend Fox and therefore is not effective.
I basically agree with Kevin.
Good grief.
Someone drain the fever swamps before we all drown in the delusional comments about Fox News.
Ignoring Fox boosts their credibility ...
I'm not so sure about that. Lots of entertainers ignore the National Enquirer. I haven't seen the NE gain any more credibility for it.
I am of mixed opinion on the WH taking Faux News on. It is true, they are not a genuine news organization. THe WH therefore has every right to exclude them from pressers. But then again, with the WH appearing fixated on rebutting them, doesn't that impart more credence to the swill Faux shills?
Google Helen Thomas on TOTN
Google Helen Thomas on TOTN regarding this move. It's a dumb move politically, and it's a terrible move in the land of the first amendment.
While the White House Press Room may not be large enough to admit everyone who wants it, it is a horrible and evil idea to let the White House decide who gets to play Press and who is not. It is horrible and evil to let the White House reward willing members of the press with access and punish critics.
We should look at the comments here, and flip it around, how would we, how did we, feel about Republicans pulling the same shit?
How the fuck can Mother Jones or Bloggers feel it is okay for the White House or Government to yay/nay any particular organization (or say that Bloggers cannot be journalists or benefit from shield laws.)
Goddamn it, and fuck Fox news, but you guys are being complete douchebags.
I'd agree with you if Fox
I'd agree with you if Fox News was a news outlet. It's not. It's a partisan political operation which got away with pretending to be a news outlet during the Bush years. Fox News engages in political activism regularly, raising money for conservative causes, lobbying for legislation, urging viewers to take action. Remember the protests in April? - Fox referred to them as FOX NEWS Tea Parties. These are not the actions of a serious journalistic enterprise.
The rest of the cowardly and delusional slackers who, sadly, constitute our actual press need to wake up. Refusing to stand up to Fox de-legitimizes them, too.
Ignoring Fox
I might not have been clear about what I meant about ignoring Fox News. I mean that the Obama Administration should not ignore their bogus behavior (pretending to be fair and balanced when they are not). The White House should call out this behavior and act accordingly, by excluding Fox from briefings for genuine news organizations.
So I believe that optical weenie and I are in agreement...
" how did we, feel about
" how did we, feel about Republicans pulling the same shit?"
Hey dim wit, the Republicans spent 8 years doing it, for example, refusing 9 years worth of interview request from the NY Times and suggesting repeatedly that they would retaliate against media outlets they did not like.
The White House is handling this perfectly.
malaise
Kevin Drum, 2009: Flying the flag high for selfindulging and selfloving liberal wankers everywhere. Bring in the circular firing squad.
Hey Kev D, any particular reason you couldnt be bothered, for months running now, to produce a minimal amount of advocy for the arguably historic legislation your party is on the brink of enacting, that would provide healthcare coverage for 40 million uninsured fellow americans and saving the lives of tens of thousands?
Got better things to do , huh? Shall we take it that pitching in for a good cause does not live up to your standard of pathologicly wankering contrarianism then?
You need a primary challenge.
they want to have it both ways
The idea that there's an unbreachable firewall between Fox's "news division" & their commentators is a useful fiction for the network, but it's complete bullshit when you have "The Fox News Channel" running an hour-long "documentary" titled "Obama & Friends: The History of Radicalism" and hosted by Sean Hannity. The network doesn't merely blur the line between news & opinion; they masquerade the latter as the former.
And when you consider "news channels" running "documentaries" which claim that Obama has a history of "training for a radical overthrow of the government," then you begin to understand why the Secret Service is forced to acknowledge that it can no longer keep up with the massive number of death threats against Obama. Freedom of the press doesn't mean freedom to be dangerously irresponsible.
Mr Anonymous is Pretty Upset
Look -- The White House should be able to call Fox a bunch a lying phonies -- if the White House can back it up. I believe that they can, and they should.
Let's not be cowards here. That's not going to move the country forward...
I agree, if the White House
I agree, if the White House thinks Fox is acting in bad faith and lying, they should come straight out and say that and make their case.
But pulling their credentials, refusing to talk to them, trying to force other news organizations to boycott them, that's bullshit.
Its not how we feel, its how press reacts.
And the difference is, when the Bush admin did it to MSNBC/NBC
Dan Froomkin reacted. Ruth Marcus only mentioned this because she had already said ( wrongly, of course) that if the Bush admin had done such a thing the press would be in conniptions. Her only evidence of conniptions
was Dan Froomkin.- Not exactly the big press.
While in this case,
the NYT and Joe Klein and Jake Tapper and Kevin Rudin of NPR
and Ruth Marcus are reacting. A whole hell of a lot more like the big press.
Maybe WH wants Fox as the voice of the GOP
Wow, I find myself disagreeing with most of you. It's one thing not to appear on Fox news shows or not to grant them any exclusive interviews or even to take an occasional shot at them, but it's another to try to exclude them from pool events that all the other news orgs attend. Yes, Fox is a news org, just not a very good one. On a side note, I've been thinking that part of the motive for the recent White House offensive is that it *wants* Fox to be a conservative martyr. I think the Obama team wants Fox and Rush and Beck and, heck, let's throw in Malkin, to be the faces of the Republican Party. The more that happens, the more the GOP appears crazy and the more the GOP's stature sinks. (Only 20 percent of voters in recent ABC poll identified themselves as "Republican", lowest figure since Watergate, I'm told. Think that figure can get lower?)
Implications of catclub's point?
So the mainstream press have reacted differently in the Obama-Fox case than they did during the Bush Administration. Isn't this all the more reason to fight this battle publicly so that more people will understand what is going on? To give up now would be to tacitly admit that the Tappers and Rudins are right, no?
Go, libs!
I disagree with Kevin. The fact that Fox claims to broadcast news isn't good enough. If an avowed neo-nazi group publishes a newspaper, should they get equal treatment with, say, McClatchy? I don't think so.
This is classic media insularity. If Fox wants to be treated as a news org, it needs to clean up its act. For now, I'm delighted Obama has the balls to boot them.
I vote with my wallet--these days, Howard Dean and Alan Grayson are the only ones I'm sending any money to. If Obama keeps this up, I'll send some to him as well.
Which reminds me, any primary challengers for Harry Reid you guys can recommend?
Two sides - better solution?
I think Kevin has a valid point, and also that many commenters have a valid point that FN is in no way anything but a propaganda outlet.
I think a better solution, rather than the WH trying to kick right-wing propaganda channels out of the pool, is to organize some sort of 3rd-party panel that can vet who gets to be in the pool. That way it's harder to invoke 1st amendment issues on an emotional level.
Biggest problem is that if "old news" did the vetting, they would systematically favor Fox-like trash over quality news blogs and the like. That's a problem too, but less problematic than having the WH decide who gets pool access.
Treasury, not White House
In this case, although it's roughly the same impact if part of the Executive branch is doing it. Sorry for the error.
So much for a more sane,
So much for a more sane, "adult" way to manage the White House. What this really shows is the Obama Administration is steeped in the "Chicago Way" of politics and can't believe Fox won't kowtow - and the rest of the media as well - to the White House's wishes and desires.
Keep whining and attacking, Obama, you're only driving Fox's numbers up. People understand that the more whining and complaining and attacking you do on someone, then that someone must be hitting close to home.
"Who, exactly, has a right to press pool displays?"
Fox does. They help pay for it.
Chicago way?
This "Chicago" phrase is really making the rounds with the right-wingers and it's a real joke.
I think most progressives would be delighted to think Obama would be willing to knock a few heads together and make some enemies in order to strong-arm his agenda through. Instead, they worry that Obama is the opposite of a tough big-city pol. That's why that charge is falling flat, The right-wingers should be begging the GOP to come up with something that will stick.
And while I think the press pool business was a mistake, it will not resonate with the public. Too inside baseball. Fox's audience is around it's max and aging quickly.
Hey MacGrubby has caught on!
"Chicago Way" politics is this week's GOP talking point. Only took MacGrubby 5 days
to get it.
East Texas boondocks
East Texas boondocks politics.
Nice troll
Tell us how the pay is these days for trolls & how often you get updated with your blogging points from Karl. Do the checks clear right away ?
"The age of the mass media is just that -- an age. It doesn't have to last forever." - Jay Rosen
Maybe the WH Wants Fox as Voice of GOP
Good point, Anonymous. But more important, in my opinion, is that both GOP and Fox not only appear crazy but are crazy, and we shouldn't just pretend that they are sane. Crazy people can do a lot of damage. They should not be treated as normal people / normal news organziations.
So yes, the Obama team is right to identify the GOP with Fox News. Make a big deal about this -- because it is a big deal.
I'm with Kevin on this one.
I'm with Kevin on this one. It shouldn't be a major newsflash, even to those partisans so hot to point out lies and distortions promulgated by Fox News, that all news agencies are prone to lies and distortion -- CBS, CNN, MSNBC, the New York Times, etc., to take just a few notable recent examples. And the fiction that the journalistic universe is somehow divided into responsible, "objective" organizations and politically biased (and, as implied, "irresponsible") ones deserves to be pounded into the ground and left for dead. ALL news organizations suffer from a systemic bias. It would be nice if, a la the English system, these biases were simply acknowledged, and the rest of us could evaluate what any given medium produces accordingly.
@MacGruber
Fox helps pay for press pools? Please provide details.
@M
Lumping Fox in the same basket with most news organizations is just silly, IMO. Don't you think there is a clear difference? Can't we acknowledge the obvious?
We're not going to fix things if are attitude is that all news organizations lie, so let's not single out Fox News.
Fox is exceptionally bad and should be treated as such.
Fallows Weighs In
"(Fox News) is the closest thing America offers to what it's like to be exposed to the Chinese government's 24/7 internal propaganda machine"
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