Controlling Healthcare

| Thu Nov. 19, 2009 8:13 AM PST

Ezra Klein on the cost control portions of the Senate healthcare bill:

If this piece of the bill was passed on its own, it would be the most important cost control bill ever considered by the United States Congress. But you could never have passed it on its own. You needed the coverage to make the grand bargain work. Republicans like to call this bill a trillion-dollar experiment to expand the health-care system, and in some ways, it is. But it's also a multitrillion-dollar experiment to cut costs in the health-care system, and it deserves credit for that, and support from fiscal conservatives. It's easy to talk about cutting costs, but this is the chance for people to actually do it.

This is a consistently underappreciated aspect of the current reform efforts in general and the Senate bill in particular.  Are they Rube Goldberg concoctions?  Sure.  Might they fail?  Sure.  But they are, by several miles, more ambitious attempts to rein in both Medicare costs, and healthcare costs generally, than anything ever done.  Nothing else even comes close. MedPAC, Medicare growth targets, excise taxes on Cadillac plans, givebacks from Pharma, a modest public option, delivery reforms — these are all pitifully inadequate to the task, but they're also the best prospects for healthcare cost control we've ever seen.

Right now Democrats are stuck.  For short-term political reasons, Republicans have decided to demagogue cost-control because it helps them gin up opposition to healthcare reform in general.  This means Dems can't really afford to do more on this front even if they wanted to.  But at least these bills set the stage.  They put in place both goals and programs that can be built on later if America's party of fiscal conservatism ever decides to stop throwing temper tantrums and instead join in seriously addressing America's long-term fiscal problems.  That probably won't be until after 2012, but if reform passes this year at least we will have gotten started by then.

Advertisement

Advertisement

Kevin Drum is a political blogger for Mother Jones. For more of his stories, click here.

Get Mother Jones by Email - Free. Like what you're reading? Get the best of MoJo three times a week.

Comments

What a ludicrous post. I'm

What a ludicrous post. I'm certain even you don't believe anything in this bill is going to reduce health care costs.

Also, I find it hilarious that the media is reporting this bill as both deficit neutral and cost saving. Yes, when you use 10 years of taxes to pay for 7 years of benefits, it may be "deficit neutral" over the first 10 years. But to say that this is cost saving, because the bill will "pay for itself" is ridiculous. Yes, if you raise a bunch of taxes and fees, anything can pay for itself. To wit, I guarantee you that a high speed rail line from San Diego to Seattle would pay for itself just fine... once you account for the fact that I'm going to raise all taxes 200%.

Shockingly good

Both the House and Senate bills are far better than I expected just a couple of months ago. Few things I don't like -- such as the stupid abortion ban in the House bill, but with both bills so good, it's hard to see how something worse comes out of conference, though I suppose that's always a possibility.

Now it's up to Reid to get a few senators in line.

In addition, the CBO - by

In addition, the CBO - by law - could not score the "doctor fix" bill, which is 250 billion and is a separate piece of legislation (on purpose). You add in the 250 billion, and the short term savings is gone.

Also, this 600 billion in Medicare savings will never see the light of day. Congress has been kicking this can since 1997. Every year, Congress looks to pass this "savings" bill and every year, it fails. Why? Doctors are already taking a bath on Medicare and if they pass this "savings" bill, doctors might start turning away Medicare patients.

Of course - by law - the CBO cannot take this 600 billion that will never take place into account.

Health care reform will be quite costly and unpopular, but you know that Drum. It's all part of the trojan horse that progressives hope will lead to single payer.

ignoring the elephant

JMHO, but wouldn't the best way to reduce health care costs is to mandate that the health care industries (pharma, insurance, med device, hospitals, clinics, etc) be NOT FOR PROFIT and keep the health insurance companies off the stock market.

Only in America is it considered a plus to be able to make money off a sick person.

Oh and p.s. I hope this sends MacGrubby into a tail spin.

It saddens me that people

It saddens me that people actually think this way. While I appreciate the sentiment, you have to look at reality and human nature. As much as we wish it weren't true, people are motivated by profit, and by forbidding profit, we don't somehow circumvent this trait.

Case in point: drug companies don't develop drugs for hundreds of diseases that devestatingly effect small groups of people, but instead focus on diseases like cancer, heart disease, diabetes, and ED. Why? Is it because, in their altruistic wisdom, they want those investment dollars used to benefit the greatest number of people? Of course not: it is because, in their profit-motivated wisdom they know that a market will exist that will allow them to earn a profit on whatever they produce.

The fear by those on the sidelines is not that the rich will be forced to remove it's boot from the throat of the poor, but that innovation, which is motivated by desire for profit, will cease. More disheartening still, is that the foregone innovation will be invisible. If profit had been banned in the medical field in the 1960's, it's certain that many of the advancements we enjoy today (MRI/Cat scans, organ transplants, HIV drugs, cancer treatments, etc.) wouldn't exist, and we wouldn't even know what we're missing. I'd most certainly rather be uninsured today than fully insured in 1960. Eliminating the profit motive would likely disable me from making that statement in another 40 years.

Really?

" As much as we wish it weren't true, people are motivated by profit, and by forbidding profit, we don't somehow circumvent this trait."

I beg to disagree with your premise. The people that are motivated by profit in the pharmaceutical industry aren't the research scientists. The profit seekers are the CEOs and upper management as well as shareholders. I simply don't believe that researchers with the knowledge and skill to invent drugs to cure disease would work less enthusiastically if they received a decent salary, had job security, and worked for a non-profit. Scientists, for the most part, tend to be intensely interested in their work and do it out of real intellectual excitement and inherent personal reward. Now if we're talking about a company that makes tennis shoes, sure, there isn't anything intrinsically meaningful or challenging about the industry EXCEPT profit and for workers, making a living.

I don't know why you assume

I don't know why you assume that researches are inherently different from those who produce tennis shoes. They're all people. Researchers aren't born with the altruism gene flipped to 'on', and tennis shoe makers, and the rest of the population, aren't born with it flipped to 'off'.

How did those researches acquire the knowledge and skill to invent the drugs? They worked hard, saved, spent years in school to acquire that knowledge, and now reap the fruits of their labors. If you eliminate the opportunity for profit, or cut the reward for becomming a researcher, you will get fewer researchers and more bankers, lawyers, or whatever field offers a better return on investment.

You can disagree all you'd like, but it doesn't make it any less true. This is fundamental human nature.

actually James2

Your global observation that all researchers are motivated only by profit is just pure and unadulterated bullshit.

Maybe some people enter

Maybe some people enter professions for the money but most people I know try to work at what interests them most. Sheesh, I'm a pianist and my daughter just graduated college with a degree in fine arts. Believe me, neither of us chose those professions for the money in them.

Company profits are in the domain of business types. Profits rarely 'trickle down' to increased wages for employees but instead to increased dividends for shareholders.

And, I neglected to say...

increase the salaries of CEOs and upper management.

Of course, because you

Of course, because you didn't enter an area for profit, almost every other human being alive acted likewise. This of course excludes the fact that you make your money doing X (...Teaching piano to kids? I'm betting the thousands of people who do this for a living didn't pursue piano with the intention of being a piano teacher. The desire for profit pushed them to this pursuit.)

If "most people" don't pursue profit, how do you explain the millions of lawyers, bankers, truckers, miners, etc. etc. etc.? They all really love what they do and followed their hearts desire?

Haha...

You think I pursued music for the one in a million chance that I'd be a concert artist? 'Fraid not. I'll agree that it wasn't the most rational choice for making a living. But it was an extremely enriching one (grin - not in the literal sense of the word). But please, I'm perceptive enough to not believe that everyone is like me. But neither is everyone the way you describe. Profit is not the same as 'earning a living,' btw. Miners!!! Oh, my God. You think they became miners out of some profit motive?

How do you come to the

How do you come to the conclusion that working to earn a living isn't the same thing as being motivated by profit?

If you stopped paying the miner, he'd stop showing up to work. The fact that he uses the profit he earns to buy food, or shelter, or plasma televisions is irrelevant. Likewise, if you cut the pay of all miners, some would find that they can earn more profit plying other trades.

You can substitute any profession in the world into the preceeding paragraph. While profit may not by the only motivator, it is, for almost everyone in the world, the largest motivator, if for no other reason than the fact that people need to eat.

While I'm sure you didn't pursue music for that reason, I guarantee you that is why you are doing whatever you are doing to earn a living (teaching piano, playing variety shows, being a session musician).

Profit

Profit has a distinct meaning in economic terms. Employees don't make profits, they earn wages or salaries. Does your IRS form ask for your yearly profit? No, it asks for your gross income from which a bunch of things are deducted to get your net income upon which you pay taxes.

Silly me... since we have

Silly me... since we have been discussing accounting this entire time I should have chosen my words more carefully...

"Company profits are in the

"Company profits are in the domain of business types. Profits rarely 'trickle down' to increased wages for employees but instead to increased dividends for shareholders."

For many public companies, the employees are also shareholders. You should remember that when complaining about slow wage growth; many companies offer programs that offer stock options or shares for their employees. The dividends are reinvested and the employee benefits.

Yes

I'm aware of the programs that allow employees to buy company stock at a discount at up to a certain percentage of salary. IBM's plan allows up to a 6% employee contribution to their stock ownership plan. It's indeed a benefit but not quite the same as seeing timely wage increases. One must spend one's wages in buying the stock. The discounted price offers a 'better chance' of earning a profit on those wages in the future. But then there are companies like Halliburton that actually gave stock to its employees as a pension plan. Yep. Not what I'd call money in the bank.

Do you want the gov't to create & run non-profits?

If you're looking for small limited gov't, then you can't have gov't creating & running a bunch of non-profits (for various purposes). That means we have to have a system, other than guns & jail, for collecting capital together to make these organizations function. Unfortunately that brings us 'round to CEOs and other form of slime. That's where gov't is essential...to regulate and watch closely.

Mark H

Why would the government have to create and run the nonprofits? Aren't there people who would find it rewarding and interesting to start up a non-profit pharma company with initial investment by philanthropists? Seems theoretically possible at least.

I don't have a problem with

I don't have a problem with the profit-motive in research and the delivery of healthcare. If properly regulated, it does lead to innovation and efficiency.

But for insurers it makes no sense to me. They fulfill an adminstrative function that could be probably carried out more efficiently by one public entity. I don't see the gains from profit-seeking behavior in this segment.

That's why I'm for a single-payer system. But I'll settle for less.

Why Stop There?

"Only in America is it considered a plus to be able to make money off a sick person."

In America, it is also considered a plus to make money off of hungry people.

So why not mandate that all food-related industries become non-profit?

In America, it is also considered a plus to make money off of people who need shelter.

So why not mandate that all housing-related industries become non-profit.

It's a great game you can play - until it hits your industry.

Straw Man

A little googling to make my point. Pfizer was chosen off the top of my head and Sysco, a wholesale food company, was chosen because it was the most easily found. Profits of both for 2008:

Pfizer (a bad year): $8,104 million

Sysco: $855 million

So, a tenfold profit advantage held by Pfizer. It's not profit per se that is bad, but the amount of profit that makes some profits obscene.

The Great Breast Scare of

The Great Breast Scare of 11/17. NEVER FORGET!

Srsly, what is science based medicine and is it going to look like the past two days or what?

single payer

MacGruber -- my Dad is a conservative Republican orthopedic surgeon and he has been saying that we need a single payer system FOR YEARS.

http://legalinsurrection.blog

http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2009/11/dems-to-tax-cosmetic-surge...

Harry Reid and his Democratic band of friends want to impose a 5% excise tax on all elective cosmetic surgeries (those which are not needed to repair deformaties or injuries caused by an accident or disfiguring disease). It's all in Section 9017 of Harry Reid's 2,074 page monstrosity released tonight:

There is hereby imposed on any cosmetic surgery and medical procedure a tax equal to 5 percent of the amount paid for such procedure (determined without regard to this section), whether paid by insurance or otherwise.

To where does the health care bill direct you for the definition of "cosmetic surgery"? To Section 213(d)(9)(B) of the IRS Code:

(B) Cosmetic surgery defined.— For purposes of this paragraph, the term “cosmetic surgery” means any procedure which is directed at improving the patient’s appearance and does not meaningfully promote the proper function of the body or prevent or treat illness or disease.

That's 5% which falls mostly on women, who make up the bulk of cosmetic surgeries. Add 5% to every breast enlargement, nose job, face lift, tummy tuck, and liposuction.

Doesn't matter if you are rich, middle class or poor. 5% no matter what. And your doctor has to collect it from you, or else the doctor is on the hook for it.

So much for Obama's promise not to raise taxes on anyone making under $250,000.

I like it, as long as it

I like it, as long as it excludes treatment to people who have been disfigured.

It ain't just women...

"(B) Cosmetic surgery defined.— For purposes of this paragraph, the term “cosmetic surgery” means any procedure which is directed at improving the patient’s appearance and does not meaningfully promote the proper function of the body or prevent or treat illness or disease."

I'm betting it also includes braces. Can't wait for all those parents making less than 250K/year to get sacked with another hefty tax. I wonder what Reid and Pelosi will tell the parents?

"Let those little urchins eat cake...With an overbite."

It must be nice to be as rich as Pelosi. She probably pays for her botox with the money she finds on the floor of her car.

braces

My cheapo dental plan limits orthodontia to $1500 for the lifetime. I suspect most parents pay a lot more than that for their kids overbites.

I certainly do, and

I certainly do, and how!

Still, it's nice to have any dental coverage at all.

I don't get your position:

I don't get your position: Pelosi is Marie Antoinette if she would tax cosmetic surgery, but not if she were to deny coverage to the uninsured.

Doesn't make sense to me.

I'm not likening Pelosi to

I'm not likening Pelosi to good old Marie. Maybe I should have phrased it better: the Law of Unintended Consequences is quite the bitch. Pelosi probably won't care too much about braces getting taxed. She's rich enough to withstand the hit on braces for her grandchildren and still afford her botox.

Who gets squeezed in her plan are the middle and upper middle classes. You know, the ones she throws under the bus. I'm glad she cares so much about the lower class. Although, I don't really think it speaks to much to her charity when she spends other people's money to support it.

She and Feinstein are married to billionaires. Why don't they combine their monies and create some great non-profit health care firms to help fill the gap and take on the evil for-profit health care firms?

Dems are not stuck

I don't understand this analysis. I don't understand why the Dems don't just pass a good bill and leave the Republicans on the side line. In a year when they are up for election are they really expecting to hear commercials about how they passed healthcare reform and the world did not fall apart. There is no voting going on now. In a year no one will care unless all the Doctors are on strike.

Everyone is still pissed off about the bailout because it was a blatant give away to the richest with no benefit for anyone not a hundred millionaire. This reform will just be sitting out there slowly being implemented and in a year no one will notice.

snark

I'm dying to know how many pages the final bill will be. After all, that's what's really important. /s

Yes, that's the main GOP

Yes, that's the main GOP response: "it's x pages long!" Never mind that the bill reconfigures a major portion of the economy.

But as I've pointed out before, this is the crowd that loves the Laffer Curve -- short, simple and wrong.

I continue to believe the

I continue to believe the commentators are missing the single greatest source of cost savings -- universality. This operates at both the provider and insurer levels. A huge proportion of doctor and hospital costs is driven by the uncertainty of payment: excessive billing administrators (e.g., 800 of them at 800-bed Duke U Hospital), transfers of uninsured patients between emergency rooms, searching for funding sources for uninsured patients, collection agents, multiple confusing mailings, accumulating finance charges on delayed payments, lawsuits for deadbeats. Knowing how, when and by whom the provider will be paid when the patient shows up at the door will change this dramatically, and when we have reduced this administrative waste -- as opposed to legitimate administrative costs -- it will help us focus on the pluses and minuses of other (and more radical) methods of cost control. (My guess is that other countries that get the job done better for half the cost, whether single-payer or even private-insurance-based systems, do so without many ofl these elaborate cost-control schemes.

Of course, it seems we are at 94%, and not yet 100%. I guess that's 94% of those not covered by Medicaid, SCHIP, Medicare or VA now, so as a percentage of the whole population it should be in the high 90s: 97-98%. But in order to get the full cost benefit of payment certainty for the provider, we should keep pushing towards 100.00%

At the insurer level, there will be larger pools to spread costs and reduced sums spent on seeking and fighting over pre-existing conditions. These should be strong downward forces on rates. Of course, that's where a strong, publicly-operated non-profit plan with the legal obligation to continue reducing costs and passing those reductions through for the insureds (Federal or regional if the population served is in the several tens of millions) becomes important -- to keep the pressure on translating those savings by insurers into reduced costs to the insureds. The ability of regulatory strictures against excessive profit-taking to do the job -- what some of the wonks tell us will be baked into the bill -- is at least questionable.

A Robert Woods Johnson

A Robert Woods Johnson Foundation study from May or this year estimated that primary care docs spend $31B "interacting with the health plans". That's a lot of money spent simply on trying to get paid for ones services.

I would add that the biggest

I would add that the biggest savings of all would come from socializing the cost of catastrophic claims. Everyone covered against very high healthcare costs, period. 100.00%. No more profit-taking on the people with really, really big health problems. In the case of private insurance companies, that profit-margin as applied in the catastrophic layer is on potential expenditures with a large margin of error built in. I'm guessing it's on the catastrophic cost layer where the lion's share of health insurance profits are allocated.

Let the for-profit private business go towards less personally-crucial gap and supplementary coverage.

In the box Washington

In the box Washington thinking: throw money at a problem.

1. It is safe and actually quite conservative, I believe, to multiply by three the cost estimates for government programs to get a balllpark figure on what the actual cost will prove to be.

2. Seeing that we're broke, we might start with the inexpensive solutions, like leadership from the President on obesity and nutrition. Same thing with education, for that matter. Throwing hundreds of billions at schools and vilifying teachers and schools will have not effect because the problem is the undisciplined culture of youth, and we need real leadership to turn that around.

3. Another great cost cutting program would be getting rid of the illegal aliens. On political forums I visit, even diehard liberals from California bitch about how illegals knocked one hospital after another out of business in California. I personally know an illegal Mexican girl who won a $25 million lawsuit for having a defective anchor baby. This is on top of years and years of free care from the county hospital, Catholic charities, etc., costing God knows. Why libs think welcoming illegal aliens is so much more important than rule of law baffles me. Where did this idea come from the the US is a charity for immigrants?

4.

sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings but

it won't happen until the current generation of Republicans is dead and in their graves, and maybe not even then. This temper tantrum is going to last for a very very long time.

healthcare bill

Everyone has an opinion on this Health Bill......

But really including our Congress people who has read the complete 1990 pages???

What is in there that we don't know about?

How can any responsible person think they have a valid opinion when they have not read the bill including again our congress people....????

and since they (our congressmen/women) are exempt from this bill, what does that say???

i find the entire thing scary........never mind Republican vs Democrats and all the innane
politics.........who has read the bill entirely?........

I for one cannot trust what is going on........And I think that if big business were not
involved the citizens of this country would have a much better bill created......

Don't kid yourselves many are making big bucks off of this bill........it is all politics.....

And to quote Lincoln........"you don't make the weak strong by making the strong weak!"

Post new comment

Alternately, you may login to or register an account
The content of this field is kept private and will not be shown publicly.
  • Web page addresses and e-mail addresses turn into links automatically.
  • Allowed HTML tags: <a> <ul> <ol> <li> <blockquote>
  • Lines and paragraphs break automatically.

More information about formatting options

MoJo Comments: Send Us Your Feedback

We changed our spam software to better filter comments. Should you encounter any issues, please let us know.

Photo Essays

The chaos and humanity of war.
The craftspeople and musicians of Appalachia.
A selection of '70s ads depicting African-Americans.
As climate change melts the permafrost, native villages slip into the sea, taking a way of life with them.