Quote of the Day
From Ezra Klein, on the likely course of healthcare reform:
I once heard an activist say that leadership is the process of managing your constituency's disappointment. If that's accurate, then the next few months are going to offer ample opportunities for leadership.
Yep. The opt-out public option is almost certainly toast, and we'll end up instead with something closer to Olympia Snowe's trigger idea — assuming we even end up with that much. And there's no telling what other amendments are going to get tacked on and then make it through the final conference report. Whatever happens, though, it's not going to be pretty. Watching sausage getting manufactured never is.
Advertisement
Advertisement
Comments
Kevin, just admit that
Kevin, just admit that there's nothing good left in the bill and it's time to kill it.
If we think there's a housing crisis now, just wait until people living paycheck-to-paycheck can't make rent anymore because they're forced to buy disgusting insurance companies' products at a completely unregulated cost.
How about a triggered mandate?
How about a triggered mandate? There would be no health insurance mandate unless insurance companies met quality and cost containment goals.
I personally think mandates shouldn't exist without a strong and viable public option, and we certainly aren't going to get that. But we all know that absent mandates, the young and healthy will continue to opt out of health insurance. Who could blame them? So tie the mandates to truly affordable health insurance with guaranteed outcomes.
It's amazing that this is the best the Democrats can do when they control the House, the Senate, and the Presidency.
The problem, of course is
The problem, of course is the Senate, which will always hurt the Dems for structural reasons. As long as small rural states such has North Dakota have the same number of senators as California, the progressives will always get screwed.
Take what you can get now. Cost control and affordability will then become pressing political issues.
Kevin, just admit that
Kevin, just admit that there's nothing good left in the bill and it's time to kill it.
If we think there's a housing crisis now, just wait until people living paycheck-to-paycheck can't make rent anymore because they're forced to buy disgusting insurance companies' products at a completely unregulated cost.
And Why?
Yep, we'll end up with something like the trigger option Snowe et al. were talking about a while back, and then Snowe et al. will have to think up another reason for voting against the bill. And the Ds will give in on that, and the Rs will come up with another excuse. And on. And on ...
Right now, if the Rs came up with the notion of taxing gays to pay for it all, I expect the Ds would write that into the bill. And the Rs still wouldn't vote for it.
I've seen bad car crashes. I've even seen train wrecks. I know what what's coming will look like.
Throwing Good Votes After Bad
The House Bill with its "compromises" was bad enough, but it was stronger than this pap. Do you really think the House will adopt the tattered remnants of reform that might survive whatever Reid shepherds through the senatorial gauntlet? I can't stress this part enough: this is not just about extending coverage to another 12 people (as Reich put it); this is about AFFORDABILITY. There is nothing that is going to be affordable about this once the Dems give the entire goddam thing away in the name of political feasibility. It will create a previously non-existent findancial burden on people who can ill afford it, force shitty coverage down their throats in exchange for their hard-earned money, and once the full horror of its consequences begin to perk through the heartland, the Dems won't be able to get elected dogcatcher in a town full of puppy mills.
On the other hand, if we refuse to pass this shell of a bill, yes, the Republicans will get what they want---no reform---but is that a good enough reason to do the only thing that makes sense? If this is not a strong bill with teeth, the Republicans WILL get back in, trust me, and they will dismantle what's left of it in record time, leaving Dems with both public enmity AND no health care reform. Get real. Dump this dog and start over. And get Obama out there to DO something about it, instead of sitting around trying to play the Buddha card.
Flip the trigger around
How about a trigger to stop the public option? Have a public option, and start the planning and such now, but have a trigger option to turn it off if the insurance companies meet cost control targets, which of course they won't.
It's quite frustrating that
It's quite frustrating that Obama refuses to put any public pressure on anyone. As to the opt-out version, which would make Republicans in every state that wanted to pull out take a public position to prevent the citizens of that state from even having the choice of picking a publicly-sponsored, Federally-chartered non-profit plan, all he would have to do is say, prominently, "Giving people in different states the choice to opt-out of a Federal plan seems awfully reasonable to me. I don't quite see how a Senator from one state can dictate to the citizens of another state that they cannot have what they want, and it is perfectly clear that in many states an overwhelming majority of the citizens want the public option."
Why is it impossible for him to really take a position and employ some common public relations techniques to promote it and make it hard for anyone to oppose it?
Hopefully this abomination
Hopefully this abomination can be fixed in conference committee.
Kevin Drum really is a
Kevin Drum really is a toadying scumbag, when you get right down to it...
I always figured Ezra Klein
I always figured Ezra Klein and Josh Marshall as toadying scumbags, but though Kevin was a bit less CORRUPT than those two.
Guess not.
I've always know Ezra Klein
I've always know Ezra Klein and Josh Marshall were toadying scumbags.
But it's a minor surprise to see Kevin in cahoots with the kleptocrats,,,
I type fast one handed which
I type fast one handed which is good because I like to fellate horses while getting rogered by dogs.
No public option? Mandatory
No public option? Mandatory insurance? If Obama doesn't kill it, he'd better start packing his bags.
Dumb fucking left
When it comes to long-term strategy, the GOP base is way ahead of the Dems base, as comments here demonstrate.
The bills are far from perfect, and will be watered down so much that people like me that favor a single-payer system will be very unhappy. But even a lame bill will mark a significant shift in U.S. healthcare policy that even the GOP will be unable to walk away from. But if you favor nothing at all (allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good), then nothing will change, and the Right wins.
The GOP base understood that this is a ultural long war, and they patiently supported less than perfect (in their eyes) anti-abortion and low tax policies. And they made some gains despite being inthe minority.
I don't think we'll have a half-decent heathcare system in this country untill at least 25 years from now. But I want to begin the process now.
In Phase I, we're going to
In Phase I, we're going to take care of the Insurance companies.
In Phase II, just a few years down the road, we're going to take care of the people.
Yes, pretty much. We live in
Yes, pretty much.
We live in a country ruled by financial oligarchs. That's the reality, any solution to the healthcare issue will have to take their interests very much into account. But at least we get more people covered and set a standard that the insurers have an obligation to serve the interest of the country.
It's a small step but worth taking.
Sigh g. powell, I usually
Sigh g. powell, I usually respect your point of view, but I was kidding. It's an old joke. Phase II never arrives.
(See Brad DeLong who insists free trade would be peachy keen if they would just implement all the great retraining programs and social net that he has been advocating for 30 years.)
You got a better idea?
You got a better idea?
If we just wish really, really hard, we'll get single payer.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mithras Invicti
Fables of the Reconstruction
mithras.blogs.com
Nothing will pass. Nothing
Nothing will pass. Nothing will get done. The Democrats CANNOT govern, and the Republicans shouldn't. Our great grandchildren will dig up our graves to spit on our remains, and rightly so.
Insults fail me...
Reading these comments makes it obvious that some people would rather spend the rest of their lives nursing their many grievances than get anything productive done.
Kill the bill and start over? If the Democrats pass a bad bill, they will probably get a chance to fix it. You can hound them to "do it over and do it right" next time. If they don't pass anything at all, they most likely lose the White House and both houses of Congress. You think starting from scratch will be easier with a dozen or so more Republicans in the Senate, 50 or 60 more in the House, and Sarah Palin in the White House? If your answer is yes, you are either a complete idiot or an unconvincing concern troll.
Keep in mind that Canada's health care reform in the 1960s allowed doctors to bill patients for anything they wanted over and above what the "single-payer" insurance scheme allowed. If the government was willing to pay $500 for a service and a doctor wanted to charge $10,000, he could just send you a bill for the other $9,500. That practice wasn't ended until 1984.
If Tommy Douglas had followed your advice and spiked the bill he pushed Lester Pearson into passing in 1966 because of that or any other loophole, Canada would be in the same boat you guys are now, almost 50 years wasted and still trying to get the process started.
If the bill they end up passing sucks, start pressuring them to fix it. Keep at it even if it takes 18 more years. Otherwise your grand-kids will be having this same conversation in 2050.
P.S. If the Republicans are serious about driving Snowe out of the party, and pushing Collins out the door right after her, then the trigger could end up being a good thing. Neither of them will have any reason to oppose pulling the trigger (possibly for a stronger public option than has so far been debated) once they've been Scozzafavaed.
meh. fuck you.
meh. fuck you.
Merge the Democratic and Republican Parties.
At the turn of the last century Teddy Roosevelt was the first major US political figure to advocate for universal health care. That was about forty years after Bismarck had established it in Germany and our dysfunctional government warns US not to move too fast in 2009 towards that end.
After a hundred years of sell outs to corporate power it has become all too clear that the Democrats are not the vehicle to meaningful reform. It is essential to any truly progressive program that the Democratic party be dissolved or rendered to third party status. Destroy the party of pretenders. Better yet, merge them together with their brethren , the Republicans. Call them the Republicrat Party or the Fascists. Fascists having such a negative connotation, we could call them the Plutocrats or Corporatists.
The Kucinich progressives could join the Greens, the Paul liberatarians could join the Liberatarians. The country would still be an even split, but now three ways. A majority government would be highly unlikely, and coalitions would be required in order to operate. Deals would have to be made. If the Fasciists wanted corporate giveaways they would have to give the Greens something in return, ie, health care.
“To turn your back on the corrupt Republican Party and the corrupt Democratic Party---the gold-dust lackeys of the ruling class----counts for something. It counts still more…to join a minority party that has an ideal, that stands for a principle, and fights for a cause.“ Eugene Victor Debs from his 1918 speech at Canton, Ohio for which he was sentenced to 10 years in federal prison in this “the land of the free”.
100% or Zero?
Sorry, people. For all of its many limitations, and the fact that it will inevitably lack in so many areas, the health care bill that eventually gets signed by President Obama will be a vast improvement over the status quo.
Those who say, "This bill will be such a disappointment, compared to the absolute ideal, that we should just kill it and stay with what we have." are wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong.
Getting the "nose of the camel" into the tent IS a big step forward. Eventually it will allow us to pull the entire camel into the tent. The progress we make in 2009, however limited, will be a foundation. It will give us something to build on.
Saying, "Let's throw it all away and start over later when we can make it perfect." isn't living in reality. That's exactly what the big insurance companies and their congressional toadies want us to do.
Obviously, any health care reform bill scares the living hell out of the Republicans and the big insurance companies. Why? Because they know that even a very modest and limited bill will hurt them and begin the long-term process of true, complete health care reform.
If you want to set us back decades and help the big insurance companies, turn your back on any and all health care reform legislation currently in Congress: It's just what the Republicans are hoping you'll do.
I intend to back any bill that emerges, especially if it's strongly opposed by the Republicans and Big Insurance.
Post new comment
MoJo Comments: Send Us Your Feedback
We changed our spam software to better filter comments. Should you encounter any issues, please let us know.


