Healthcare Ping Pong?
Should ping pong become the new liberal sport? That is, should the House just skip the conference committee on healthcare reform entirely and simply vote on the bill produced by the Senate? This is, for some reason, known as ping-ponging, even though it doesn't really involve any kind of back and forth. In fact, the whole point is to eliminate the back and forth. But whatever. Is this a good idea?
I suppose institutional pride will prevent the House from agreeing to do this, but at this point I wonder just what they're likely to gain from a conference report? On abortion, the Senate bill is already better less atrocious than the House bill, its mandate penalty is smaller, and its defined benefit packages are more flexible.
The House bill has several advantages of its own, but among the big ticket items the public option is DOA and the others (somewhat wider coverage and more generous Medicaid expansion) would increase the price of the bill and are pretty clearly unacceptable to the centrist bloc in the Senate. That leaves the funding mechanisms: an excise tax on high-cost healthcare plans and a higher payroll tax on the wealthy in the Senate bill vs. higher income taxes on the wealthy in the House bill.
The excise tax has a sound policy justification, but a big chunk of the liberal constituency dislikes it anyway and I could certainly see a compromise here: raise the limit on the excise tax so it hits only the very richest plans and then combine it with a smaller income tax hike. Maybe that's worth going to conference for. But it's hard to see any other substantial improvements that are likely to come out of it.
So: go to conference and risk another month of squabbling and possible defections? Or take the imperfect Senate bill and get it passed for certain within a few days of returning from recess? Seems like a close call to me, but ping ponging doesn't look like a bad option at this point.
UPDATE: More here on some of the procedural issues. Turns out that ping pong might be more likely than we think thanks to yet more Republican obstruction.
UPDATE: 2: Austin Frakt points out another drawback of avoiding a conference committee: there would be no chance to fix the Senate's terrible "free rider" employer mandate.
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My favorite scenario is the
My favorite scenario is the House makes some minor changes, and then Senator Dorgan chickens out and votes no.
The House will have to vote
The House will have to vote on the Senate bill. Like it or not.
We can go into all the protestations about how unfair life is, and how we shouldnt have to get 60 votes in the Senate and all of this, but where we are on this is a deal that gets u exactly to 60, and my sense is any material change in conference kills the bill, which seemingly is what much of the left and all of the right want at this point.
I dont think it will be easy to square the circle. Nancy Pelosi got 50.5 percent of the House last time around a more robust bill with the public option, and the Stupak abortion language. Now, she has to find 218 votes for no public option and this state-based abortion language from Nelson, as well as dealing with the funding issue (excise tax vs marginal rates).
Democrats are close, but only close.
An unkown number of votes for Stupak
but more than 1, will vote for a final bill sans Stupak language. Why do you think Stupak and his allies were so hysterically and desperately trying to derail the last-minute Nelson language in the Senate bill?
They voted for Stupak and established their bona fides on the issue, but unlike Stupak and the hard core, they won't derail the whole bill for it. Don't know how many-- 6, a dozen? -- but it's enough to give Pelosi a cushion.
I wouldn't throw in the towel just yet
Traitor Joe and his fellow-travelers did what they did counting on a conference phase. Despite their pompous pronouncements about the lowly House not tinkering with the delicately balanced bill of their betters, there's probably still some give in their positions. Let 'em take some heat from their home-state colleagues before this is done.
Completely off-topic. Go.
Completely off-topic.
Go. See. Avatar.
In 3D, if at all possible.
Words cannot describe.
No sir.
I did. It is horrible. Tedious. Of course it is visually stunning but eye candy for nearly three hours? No sir, there is no substitute for 'story' and this story had no structure, was a cliche and was stretched well beyond it's usefulness.
Pass on Avatar, and pass on this version of healthcare. We can do better than both.
They should ping pong this
They should ping pong this bill so that there is time to do cap and trade and start on immigration reform.
Then after the midsessionals they should ram through a makeup bill under reconciliation rules with a de facto public option therein.
my best of scenario at this
my best of scenario at this point is that the bill passes cloture and then is voted down. Proves health care can beat a filibuster but also says we will not accept just any piece of garbage just because they call it health care reform.
Not going to happen of course. But that's the best of a rapidly waning set of loser options at this point.
A bird in the hand ...
Ping pong it, and let's wrap the thing up. A conference won't significantly sweeten the deal, and the sooner the story line shifts from 'bickering' to 'got something done,' the better for Dems.
And, brutally, it would take just one middling serious accident or health problem to turn our 60 effectively into 59. This is what the tea partiers are praying for, and while I don't believe in their prayers I do believe in Murphy's Law.
Right on the merits but---
I have to agree with Kevin and al-Fubar and hope that Pelosi will bite her lip hard and take the near-term gains.
But as Speaker she does have an obligation to the institution and if we can get pretentious to democracy itself. Senate Democratic Centrists, and particular those now labeled Conservadems make a power statement last summer: progressives don't matter and neither does majority rule. Baucus said right off the bat that the HELP Bill, largley crafted by progressives and liberals but already watered down to meet centrist cost demands, just didn't matter, instead Senate Finance would build their own bill from the bottom up. And not in open committee, instead in an ad hoc group that originally had four Republicans to three Democrats and excluded all progressives including the Chair of the Health Subcommittee on SFC. Kennedy/Dodd and HELP didn't matter, the progressives and liberals on SFC didn't matter. But Mike Enzi mattered. A lot. Even when he was making demands that everything he agreed to had to be approved IN ADVANCE by the WH the Majority Leader and the House.
Which should have led Baucus to tell him to not let the door hit him in the ass on the way out but instead caused a month of delay until SFC got around to turning ultimate controls to President Snowe.
The result was kind of a Constitutional coup with centrists on both sides of the Senate aisle making the implicit claim that Pelosi and the House just didn't matter, if they dared touch the bill the Senate would just take its ping-pong ball and go home. Can Pelosi simply allow this precedent to be established without challenge? I am hoping she decides to be pragmatic here and maybe reassert herself on another front, perhaps continuing her recent pushback on Afghan funding. But the whole thing is not a slam dunk for progressives, we have just seen our whole agenda being given a big F-U by small red states leveraging their power in the Senate.
I want Pelosi to take the deal but am fully aware this would under any circumstances be a pretty bitter bill.
Ping-ponging implies the
Ping-ponging implies the ability of the House to make amendments to the Senate bill and send it back for a vote, who can then add amendments and send it back, etc.
It would really depend on what amendments were made, and since the House controls what those are much better than the Senate, the most likely outcome is the current version in the Senate is the final version.
there's no guarantee the
there's no guarantee the house would accept the senate bill as is. ping-ponging usually entails changes in each chamber, and can be even more drawn out than conference. Plus a conference report has a few procedural advantages -- faster consideration mostly -- that a regular bill doesn't.
my favorite ping-pong of the last few years: a military tax bill, very small by tax bill standards, that the House and Senate passed back and forth maybe five times in 2007-2008. Changing the name each time, because Max Baucus and Charlie Rangel had different ideas on how to work in the word "heroes" in the most cloying way possible. but very few substantive changes, just two stubborn committees going at it.
Another advantage of ping
Another advantage of ping pong is that you don't face the limitations placed on the content of conference reports. Each chamber is simply exchanging amendments.
I agree, pass it fast
Pass this bill by the fastest means possible.
It's not just that Senator Byrd is old and ailing, it's that the right is going homicidally insane. Have you folks read the comments on some of these right wing boards? Health Care Reform is the end of American democracy, it's an outrage, it's time for revolution, get out your guns, etc - and I'm not exaggerating one bit.
These guys are not the brightest bulbs in the chandelier but I'd think it not at all unlikely that at least one of them might be watching CSPAN (lord knows, we hear them call in!) and realize that the loss of one Democratic Senator would doom the bill, and take it upon himself to volunteer to be an Angel of the Lord and make Coburn's prayer come true. And Senators don't have nearly the security a President does.
And sadly, with the state of today's GOP, I don't think even the assassination of a Democratic Senator for the expressed purpose of stopping a piece of legislation would cause even one Republican Senator to reconsider the toxic course they're on and find the grace to vote for cloture.
Mythbusters: Can you polish a
Mythbusters: Can you polish a turd?
http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbusters-polishing-a-turd.html
Please stop referring to
Please stop referring to Sen.s Nelson, Landrieu, Lincoln and company as "centrists".
They are conservative Democrats.
By the same light, most of the Republican party has long since marched beyond the rightward boundary of the term "conservative", and are now radical rightists, far to the right of Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, or Bush 41.
We don't have to collaborate in the Right's re-framing.
.
Kevin, what's at stake is far
Kevin, what's at stake is far more than a matter of institutional pride; in fact it's far more important than health care reform or any other single piece of legislation.
The question is whether the whole of the federal government's legislative power is to be vested in the anti-democratic and increasingly dysfunctional Senate.
If the House's proceedings on an issue on the scale of this health care reform -- the work of three committees as well as the body as a whole -- are ultimately without consequence, then the House has been rendered powerless.
Our claim to be a democratic republic relies crucially on the sharing of legislative power between the House and Senate. If the House becomes a mere appendage, our form of government becomes far less democratic, and, given the Senate's increasing dysfunction, far less workable.
Republicans Have Burned Their Bridges
to the well-educated and to minorities of all kinds. Now they seem to be burning their bridges to the healthcare corporate interests as well. The Republican Party looks like a Kamikaze attack.
My Health Care Reform
My Health Care Reform FLIP-FLOP
" I FEEL GOOD !"
By Greg Jones
Blacks4Barack
National Director
I, as many of you, have worked for months toward health care reform and lately some have been surprised by my lack of automatic enthusiasm of the bill as being proposed by the Senate. I have had a number of concerns since my primary objective has always been to see that the needs of the 47 million hard-working Americans who are struggling through life without the basic right to access quality health care are met. I have been very vocal about the vital urgency of affordability and how, without it there should be no mandate. I have voiced my disappointment of the secrecy of the Senate's process as well as the reports stating that the bill may not go into a full conference for amendments or changes to be made to the Senate's version, resulting in the bill being signed off basically as-is by Speaker Nancy Pelosi , then sent directly to The President for final signing.
But call it an EPIPHANY. Call it a flip-flop. Call it what you want but the more I see about what this heal th care reform bill will do for those in need, the more I LOVE IT ! Now don't get me wrong, there are a number of components of the bill that will need to be worked on or improved in the future, but I now truly feel that this is in fact an incredibly historic bill that will save the lives of many. One thing that prompted my transformation and makes me feel very good about the bill is certain things that I heard during last nights debate before the 1AM cloture vote. When I wrote my original draft of this piece I spelled it all out, word for word. Then, after listening to some right-wing radio today, and their declaration to ratchet up any and all obstruction they can muster to block the bill's passing, I deleted my 'breakdown' of what I feel is ahead to make certain of not supplying their much needed ammunition. And forgive my evasiveness but let's just say that I now have a clearer understanding of what Sen. Tom Harkin (D-Ia) meant when he said that the passing of the bill i s "like buying the starter home; we're not done". In fact, he is now openly saying " we're going to revisit the public option...next year we can revisit it. There are other ways to get it ". (hope he's not being TOO open)
So I now see the strategy. An incredibly effective move on the part of the Democrats. They're going to push this bill through, possibly having Speaker Pelosi sign-off on the bill with minimal changes to get it to The President's desk as quickly and untouched as possible, and once signed into law, during the formulation period, they plan to slide in some of the changes reflective of what we all want. All hoopla free. Absolutely BRILLIANT.
So yes, I now see the true greatness of what is transpiring here. For the first time in seven Presidencies a health reform bill will be passed that no longer allows insurance companies to refuse coverage to someone because of having a pre-existing condition. For the first time millions of Americans will have access to truly affordable coverage erasing the embarrassing need for traveling, make-shift free clinics like a third-world country. Now, more people who fall in the lower economic bracket will be covered through Medicaid while seniors will have less burden with the so-called doughnut hole they have been forced to deal with. This bill will limit big-buck executive compensation and administrative costs of the insurance profiteers while creating an exchange that will give care seekers various options.
Through the passing of this bill , and thanks to Senator Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) there will be a $10 BILLION investment in community health centers. Sanders has stated that this investment will "help bring about a revolution in primary health care in America and create new or expanded health centers in an additional 10,000 communities. The provision would also work toward creating an additional 20,000 primary care doctors, dentists, nurse practitioners, physician assistants and mental health professionals for expanded mental health counseling". It is also anticipated that the community centers will save Medicaid billions of dollars by providing primary care to those in need. Sanders is also giving a significant hint of future improvements to the bill by saying, "the day after this bill passes we can improve it'.
While those are but a few of the incredible benefits of this historic health care bill, there are still elements of concern. Although many of the pre-existing clauses kick-in immediately (which is great) the start date for the majority of the plan is 2014, longer than I would like to have seen. The Medicaid costs to states could pose a future problem as states struggle financially. Here in Ohio they have just decided to stop giving prisoners coffee as a way to save money. Due to the fact that the Senate bill allows the insurance co mpanies to charge up to 3 times the normal rate for older aged people and those with pre-existings, there will be a need for stern monitoring of this aspect to assure affordability, something that I feel The President will stay on top of due to his mother's personal experience with this issue.
One of the other issues that has been of great concern of mine has been the mandate/law which requires all individuals to purchase coverage or be penalized. My concern had always been the thought of penalizing someone for being guilty of not earning enough money. But we are now getting reports, although unconfirmed, that there is what they're calling a 'hardship clause' in the bill which will make those who truly can not afford coverage exempt from the mandate, a component of the bill that I find to be absolutely great.
One thing for sure is the fact that our current health care system has been terrible. I live in Cleveland, Ohio, home of The Cleveland Clinic, one of the finest medical facilities in all the world. But up until now, due to the lack of health care coverage, a large majority of Clevelanders could only hope for the day that they may be able to access such a fine facility. This bill creates that opportunity and serves as evidence of the Democratic idea that, as Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid stating during the cloture debate, "health care is a right" proven by the filibuster proof 60 votes last night which included every Democratic Senator, even those originally labeled as obstructionists like Senators Lieberman, Baucus, Lincoln, Landrieu and even the Blue Dogs, all under the powerful leadership of Senator Harry Reid; all of which-in my opinion-actually deserve a sincere hat-tip.
In my own defense, although I have been a strong supporter of President Obama since 2004, which lead me to create Blacks4Barack in February of 2007 to invigorate and stimulate support toward The Presidency, I will always study the issues to determine what is best for our country and the American people before automatically signing-on. That's just the way I am. And when it comes to this health care bill...I Feel Good !
Throughout the entire campaign and since day one in office, "Yes We Can" has been the driving motto promoted by President Barack Obama. In just 11 months in office he has achieved more than most Presidents have done in 8 years with much more yet ahead. The passing of this historic health care reform bill will not only illustrate the tenacity, vision and determination of a great Leader, but also displays 'The Power of WE'...those who have fought the good fight and will continue to do so, working together in Unity, for The Recovery of America. Very special thanks to all of The Warriors....and Thank You Mr. President. Now, it may not be perfect (yet) but let's get the bill passed !
Greg Jones
B4B
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