The Landmark Forum: 42 Hours, $500, 65 Breakdowns

I've participated with Landmark Education in a variety of courses for over a decade. It's a company which is constantly looking to have their courses be of the highest quality and affordabilty. I'm also a licenses psychologist. Landmark is definately not therapy. Its courses provide opportunities, due to both design and content, for powerful, life altering breakthroughs in a short amount of time. I don't know of other companies which do this reliably, but they may exist. I do know it does NOT currently exist in the area of therapy. Therapy, by design, is slower and I would say, less powerful.
Any company which can offer these kind of results will be controversial. It has to be! If it were an ordinary seminar, it would not produce the same results. For healthy, open minded people, willing to be vulnerable about what is satisfying or disatisfying in our lives, the benefits are huge. But you do need to be open. It's not for everyone. And it's also not a cult. Cult experts have studied the courses. This is published fact. But, looking in, as someone cynical of the methodology and / or results, it would definately look "wrong". The Landmark Forum is no ordinary weekend, and for the majority of its participants, they're very satisfied with the extraordinary results. Again, published fact. In the end, if it works, isn't that a good thing? People resolve conflicts with loved ones, co workers, lifestyle choices, even old and damaging traumas. I say Landmark's courses are a healthy option for having fulfilling lives. And who among us thinks that's a bad thing?

Logically, the idea that this "technology" (Scientology, much?!) can help everyone is absurd. I attended The Forum in the mid-1980s and was appalled by the treatment of the participants, the coercive tactics, and the expense. Any organization that promotes a lack of individuality by enforced "breaks," specified and approved jargon and demands for more money sounds like a cult, even if the adherents claim otherwise.
(info on cults: http://www.rickross.com/warningsigns.html)
This organization takes advantage of the human desire for fulfillment and preys upon the incredulity of the lazy seeking a "quick fix." It's very reminiscent of AA, Scientology and various extreme fundamentalist religions. It's completely beyond me why any sane person with an ounce of self-esteem would fall for this scam. I feel very sorry for the people who continue their affiliation--they may be even "richer" had they never thrown their money away!

Sounds like they'll be serving Kool-aid at the Guyana Conferance.

The author seems to negatively judge those who got value out of the program. Her example of the woman who cried in the course, and then had a meaningful phonecall with her sister is recounted with a sort of disdain for this person for having actually learned something about herself.

How can you possibly interpret two estranged sibling coming closer to each other as a bad thing? So you didn't like the way the course leader talked to her? Were you there to judge wether or not the teacher was nice? Or if people got what they came for? You obviously ignore the result, and instead wrote about her as if she is a fool for not feeling humiliated.

This article reads like FOX News showing only the clips of angry people at Town Hall meetings, and never showing the substance of the discussion. We got it. The author doesn't like the style of the teacher, and she wrote an article about it. But how about the actual substance of the program, and the results people get out of it?

Why bother presenting an article about such a thing, if all it does is present the authors smug judgements? Who cares about her petty attitudes?

As a satisfied graduate of Landmark's programs, and an enthusiastic volunteer for two years, I have gotten a lot of benefit from my Landmark experiences, and have seen others get the same benefits from it.

The article is accurate and does represent how someone can experience the Landmark Forum. But there are other ways to experience it, and going in with a positive "let's see if this can help me get over life's lumps and bumps" attitude is going to give you a much different experience.

It is easy for someone to spend a weekend doing the Landmark Forum and come out feeling better about their life, more empowered over their circumstances, and willing to apply some techniques they learned over the weekend to continue to make progress in their life. They may never speak of Landmark or take another Landmark course again in their life.

So I'm not sure where the problem lies...? Weak-minded people might get all hero-worship-y about their Forum leader ("ooh! They were able to help me when nobody else could! They are magical!") , but people also get addicted to Coca Cola. Is that Coca Cola's problem, or the individuals' problem?

Landmark is one in a long list of tools people can use to improve their life. Imbuing the tool with some sort of mystical power over people is more than a little dishonest.

I participated in the Landmark Forum in November 2007, and it was lead by the same David Cunningham that lead Laura McClure's Forum. A couple of piddly comments, first off. McClure states that "By Sunday, I'm in open rebellion. I come bearing contraband—a newspaper, coffee, snacks, and Advil," One: they tell you to bring snacks, that's why I showed up on FRIDAY with them. Two: David ASKED us to try going through the Forum without stimulants, alcohol or over-the-counter drugs, and made a clear distinction that he wasn't talking about prescribed medication. No one was obliged to give up anything unless they agreed to do so. Three: I am totally unaware of any prohibition against bringing reading material. I brought a book in case I had some free time. I didn't have free time. I was participating. Five: you could get up and leave the room at anytime. And it was discussed in front of the group. You could go and get water and go to the bathroom at anytime. I know I did. Landmark Forum leaders would prefer you stayed in the room and got the most out of the program, and constant up-and-down, in-and-outs are disruptive, but there is no bathroom Gestapo keeping you down. If in the pursuit of telling your own lil' Landmark horror tale, you fudge the basics, mebbe you need a trip back to J-school.

Landmark is awesome! Just like Amway, you'll have to part with lots of your money, but you'll get wicked excited, and that's worth quite a lot right there! (apologies to Tim Sample)

I was surprised not to read a little more about the hard sell aspect of this program. A friend and I were roped into a Forum informational meeting by a colleague, who also brought his girlfriend and his parents. The four of us were exchanging glances early in the meeting - it was clear we all saw it as a sham, or at worst, a cult.

They had a solid system for the hard sell, splitting us into smaller groups and separating familiar people. My friend and I refused to be separated, and they eventually led us into a small room with only a few other people. By the end of the sales pitch, they moved everyone to the main room... except the two of us. They could tell we were beyond skeptical and literally surrounded us to prevent us from leaving the room.

They pressed hard for acceptance. Our stance was simple: We need to think the program over before we agree to anything. Their stance: There is no in-between - you are either on board or you're out. The tension was overwhelming and they were very close to physically restraining us. Eventually, my friend threw his hands in the air and said, "HAVE IT YOUR WAY. We don't want any." They showed us to the lobby, where we waited for the rest of our group to emerge from the wrap-up sales pitch. We glossed over a table of books for sale, and a volunteer, clearly not in the know about our situation, asked if we were interested in a discount on multiple books.

We finally left, and in the car, our colleague's parents accosted him for taking us to a cult meeting. The girlfriend started to cry. He declared himself an outsider in his own family and we suffered through an uncomfortable ride home. Within a week had come to his senses and gave up his Forum addiction, thankfully. I could care less how many people have had "positive" experiences with Forum, their methods are despicable.

Try this one on for size: much of the criticism you hear about Landmark is well-deserved. But equally well-deserved is much of the praise. I've been through the Forum, and the Advanced Course, and had an overwhelmingly positive experience. Since doing so, I've gotten myself on a regular workout program, dropped 24 pounds (to 130, thank you), and am now in as good shape as when I graduated college. This from a guy who last exercised regularly in college, and had washed out of three workout programs in mere weeks before this. I've learned about investing, and taken complete control of my finances, both retirement and short-term. I made money in the market in 2008, and I'm making money in the market again so far in 2009. I'm on track to buy a house next year, by myself, in one of the most expensive housing markets in the country. This from a guy who was raised by a lower-middle-class single mother always struggling to make ends meet, and on food stamps for a while, and from a guy who himself had over $20,000 in credit card debt just four years ago. I attribute both of these makeovers to the new attitude and approach to life that I came out of Landmark with.

That said, Landmark is not for everyone. While I know plenty of people who got results like me, I also know plenty of people who got results like the author of the article, and some worse. One of them was a close friend who took the Forum on my recommendation. Happily, we're still good friends, and Landmark refunded her money in full (they're generally good about that if it's clear you're having a bad time and not getting it). But I'm now more selective about whom I recommend the Forum to. It's difficult; it's confrontational on many levels; and you have to truly want something more out of your life than you're getting now. If the latter isn't the case, I suspect you won't be sufficiently motivated to push through the difficulty and confrontation (and when I use that word, I mean it mostly within yourself). If for any other reason, you're likely to buckle easily under confrontation, I'd say it might not be for you. That's fine.

The hard-sell aspect of it is, unfortunately, true. I've often thought that it seemed a bit disingenuous to say that your programs are so good that participants will eagerly recommend them to anyone, but press so hard on those participants to keep re-enrolling for other programs and bring new people in to do the same. The thing is, without the constant hard-sell and recruitment pitches, their programs WOULD BE so good that I'd eagerly recommend them to anyone.

Also true is the comment about volunteer labor. I've made my peace with that one. The volunteers are there of their own free will, and any I ask, without exception, say they're having a great time and get a tremendous amount out of it. OK, so who am I to argue, then. I've been called many times and asked to volunteer, and I've always politely refused. It's not for me. Are the people whom it apparently is for being exploited? Is it fair to say that when they jump at the chance to do it again and again? I'll say this: without so many volunteers, the Landmark programs would be far more expensive than they are. The volunteers aren't subsidizing the company so much as they are subsidizing the participants. That's me, so I thank them, and appreciate their service.

On balance, I think Landmark is a wonderful organization. They do a tremendous amount of good for a very large number of people. Do they have their faults? Yes. Are there annoyances and pitfalls you have to be wary of as a participant? Yes. But if I had it to do all over again, I'd go back and go through the program in exactly the same way as I did all over again. It was more than worth it for me. And for all the criticism they get for their faults, I think it's more than worth working with them as they are because of the tremendous amount of good that comes out of their programs into the community.

BTW, I tend to stay well hydrated throughout the day, and consequently take a lot of bathroom breaks. And I did so during the Forum and Advanced Course. I made it a point to do so as quietly and unobtrusively as I could, and nobody ever said a word about it to me. In fact, volunteers often helped me get through the door quietly enough that nobody else would notice. The only chiding about it came from myself, when I got back into the room and it was clear I had missed something really good.

Welcome to that elite group of erudite writers that just "know" about the insidious, nefarious ways of something they just don't have the capacity to comprehend. "If it doesn't make sense to little ol' me, then it MUST be BS!" Geez, I've been reading these silly, redundant, egotistical pieces on est/Landmark for going on 30 years now. And they always have the same ring to them - more of a defense of the writer's own threatened 'I wasn't bamboozled' intelligence, than a well researched journalistic report on what took place there. I understand you writers have a need to separate yourselves from the great unwashed masses to verify your being, but maybe you could make that point a little more subtle next time you lend your 'gifts' to another piece.

It is interesting to note the language of the naysayers in this thread. Many talk about the "hard sell", "roped into", "thuggery", "tension was overwhelming", close to physically restraining us", "cult" (as used in the sense of being captured, restrained and brainwashed).

One of the things I learned at a course at..... Oh yeah, it was Landmark, was about the distinctions between a request and a demand and how to handle each. Demands come in the form of, "You are under arrest", and the more stealthy, "My mother invited us over for dinner on Sunday so I said okay". In both cases you have little choice.

However, when being invited to enroll in a course, a simple "No" is all it takes. We may think that we know how to say No, but from reading some of these comments, many people do not. They say that they will think it over or that they haven't made up their mind yet. Is it any wonder that the enrollment volunteers press forward.

When I say No, it is simple, definitive, is not laced with anger or excess volume. I do not need to explain my choice or defend it. If people ask why I said No, I say that No is the choice I made, and if they press on they are disrespecting my choice and I let them know as much.

When I operate in this manner, there is no "pressure", no "coercion", and no "roping in". In fact, even if someone puts a gun to my head and says, "You are coming with me!", I have the freedom to treat that as a request. I of course must understand the ramifications of my choice, but nonetheless I operate as if I am free to choose.

Life is simpler this way and I never complain about how things went, because after all it was just a request and I made my choice.

If you go through life avoiding being roped in or narrowly escaping being coerced, or coming close to being physically restrained, there's a great course I can recommend that will free you up from the shackles of ..... oh yeah, its your mind.

I'd been invited to Landmark Introductions by some people and warned against them by others. Then I moved to a new city (Portland, OR) and started meeting people. And some of the people I met were amazing. The were happy, they were very active in their communities, they were motivated and moitvating and accomplishing great things... And when I'd ask them what their secret was, most of them mentioned The Land mark Forum. No hard sell from them, no dragging me off to an Introduction, just a mention of the seminar and that Landmark had a website. So in the course of 6 months I met 10 Landmark Grads who inspired me, and the scientist in me figured that, hey, the proof of the validity of the "experience" offered was in the people themselves.

So I took myself to an Introduction, and signed up for the course/seminar. I have no regrets.

The most important thing I took away from the Forum was something that years of yoga and meditation had only given me fleeting glimpses of: peace. Next are freedom from helpless/useless anger, and recognition that all people are afraid but some people don't let it stop them.

A year after I took the Landmark Forum, my family went through one health crisis after another. A sister died at 36. Two others were diagnosed with cancer, one terminal. I was hospitalized for two weeks, and then my grandfather was also diagnosed with terminal cancer. My step-mom says God sent her an angel, and that angel was me--an angel that had refused to talk to her for years prior to the Forum. Through the tools I learned in the Landmark Forum, we not only survived the death, disease, and disability that hit us like a wave, but we thrived, inspiring ourselves and others to live each day as fully, as powerfully, as possible.

The Forum isn't for everyone. In fact, that is why word-of-mouth is so important -- because someone who has experienced it usually knows if someone else will 'get' it. And even then, some don't. And that, as they say, Is OK.

Not the longest most detailed article but I think she did a great job in damning them but simply quoting this guy!

I am just amazed intelligent people just turn off their brains when their hearts feel a daddy presence like this creep.

....I think an ex-boyfriend of mine went to this....it was in a hotel in midtown and it was a locked-door weekend of est type stuff and 'breakdowns' replete with hardcore expensive further levels of seminars.....we [the loved ones of the participants who were begged to be there at the end to greet them as they emerged from their isolation psych cult stuff] were in an auditorium and before they allowed the newbies t flood out to us, there was a HORRIFYING up-with-music style aerobic type synchronized dance bit by 'graduates' ....it was grim and weird and scary and made me REALLY scared of those people... not usre if this was Landmark or another similar deal.

I've run into so many different flavors of cult out there....it's not smart to be smug and feel you and immune because there is some group out there tailored to fit your own neauroses and insecurities and thus easy to snag you into thnking it's your family or answer....religious or 'other' or even a casual living scene or band or sport deal....ya gotta really question any really insular group that wants your allegiance....

An incredibly great tool I have found is pagan author Isaac Bonewits's Cult Evaluation Tool. it's a simple questionaire that really makes you think about some really important aspects of any group that can get fishy.

I applied it to a group of people I was hanging out with and very defensive of for years and it really made me aware of how I was manipulated.
The hardest thing is to realize and admit when you have been manipulated by your own earnest goodwill and hope and faith in your own future.
Some cults are starry-eyed as their followers but most are out for profit and run on the energy and hope and volunteerism of sad lonely people who need community and encouragement so they buy it.
it is cheaper and more dramatic than therapy, and if it does not lean on psych-meds that's just fine.
not truly evil but yeah truly unethical, clearly SOMEONE makes $ here in this pyramid, and icky to watch in so many ways....

look this Evaluation Tool up and print it out and use it to assess your church, club, seminar, and anyone asking you to 'join us':

http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.html

I've lost a friend to a large group awareness training program like this after having been asked a few too many times to loan money for more, higher level programs and being pressured into taking the courses. I find some comfort in The Forum being conversation-based rather than experientially-based like est, Lifespring, The Legacy Center, and other such groups. The experiential training uses many psychological tricks to bond participants to the program and mimic religious experiences. Sounds like The Forum is a relatively benign, hard-sell, self-help program that maybe should be approached with an open mind / healthy skepticism. But, I think that other large group awareness / experiential learning are probably more of the "cultish" type organizations that ought probably be avoided.

A few comments:

The sales tactics suck and are why I never discuss or explain my participation in Landmark. They lend a sense if "cult" that isn't needed and are (my guess) leftover stuff from the est days.

The courses themselves have made an enormous difference in my life and leadership. The practical outcomes: significant growth for my company when our peers are doing layoffs (that certainly mattered to my 70+ employees); reconciliation with my brother and getting rid of stuff in the way of good relationships with the rest of my family (person by person). It has absolutely made my life a lot better.

The author went into a "time management" course. She got very little out of it. I went in as jaded. I had a better forum leader. And I had one of my best friends with me who had done a lot of landmark coursework. I got a seriously better life.

I think the author nailed it on the head; something inside of us recoils when we realize that the wisdom being shared with us is only part of a package - and that the rest of the contents can be had for just a couple more dollars.

When knowledge that helps people cope with life gets turned into a commodity, then the bearers of that knowledge reveal themselves to be merchants - and not teachers.

Our friends don't charge us hard cash for advice.

Anything worth learning is yours all ready, you do not have to pay for it.
No one who really can show you the answers you ask would never ask you for money. They know the cost is to great to them to accept. it is your experience learn from it or you will have to face it till you learn from it .

I went to a Landmark forum event because my friend dragged me along. I had the same reaction as the author, until the last day. Someting "clicked" and I understood that I'd been trying to hard to hold things together and it was exhausting. I broke down and cried.

Then, I called me brother and we reconciled. Then I called my mother, and we reconciled. Then I won Superball. Then I received a medical degree without any work. Then I had a house in Malibu given to me. I wrote a blockbuster screenplay in one day and it sold to Disney the next day. Apple made me their CEO. I invented cold fusion. Discovered the secret to invisisibility, and wrote an opera. Married a supermodel and had twenty children who became the presidents of the European Union.

Obviously it works!
You doubters just can't let go!