Let the Warrantless Wiretapping Resume
| Sun Aug. 5, 2007 9:02 AM PDT
It's official: The Protect America Act is on it's way to the president's desk and, once it arrives, you can be sure it will be signed promptly so the administration can resume its warrantless eavesdropping program (legally this time). Last night 41 House Democrats sided with their Republican colleagues to pass the measure, greenlighted by the Senate on Friday, which revises the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), allowing the NSA to intercept foreign communications without obtaining a court order. Troubling to civil libertarians and the House Democrats who voted against the legislation is the wording in the bill, which seems just vague enough that U.S. citizens and domestic communications could still be swept up in the surveillance net, which was the whole problem with the first incarnation of the administration's warrantless wiretapping program. According to the bill, electronic intercepts involving people "reasonably believed to be outside the United States" are fair game. The question is what constitutes "reasonable belief" and can the intel community be counted on to adhere to this standard, particularly after the FBI's well publicized abuses of its FISA authority.
Another question that's worth asking is why the Democratic leadership—Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid in particular—allowed their caucus to be rushed into action on this bill, bowing to pressure from the White House and congressional Republicans, who have been agitating for a FISA fix.
Continues Below
Continued From Above
As recently as three weeks ago, it was my understanding that the Democrats were going to take up FISA in the fall, after Congress returned from the August recess. Silvestre Reyes, chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, said as much during a hearing I attended in late July that explored the implications of the recent National Intelligence Estimate on Al Qaeda. After the committee's ranking member Pete Hoekstra spent the better part of his opening statement lambasting the Democrats for their inaction on FISA ("we have over a week before Congress goes on recess; Al Qaeda is not going to take a break"), Reyes had this to say:
We have learned many things post-9/11, one of which has been that as we give our military and law enforcement agencies every conceivable tool that we can in order to protect us, we also have to be mindful that we want to—we don't want to have the terrorists succeed by compromising the rights of our—of our American citizens. I think that's a basic and fundamental responsibility of the Congress. I say that because when we provided the legislation, the Patriot Act, we provided some key tools that now we have found have been used inappropriately. One example was the national security letters that were utilized by the FBI.
I think it's important that we do our business in a very careful and orchestrated, regular way, and I think it's vitally important that all of us understand that in terms of addressing whatever changes need to be made under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, as my ranking member mentioned, we want to do that. We want to give and make the adjustments that are necessary, but we also want to be careful doing that. So over the course of the last month, month and a half, we've been having hearings to address that very issue. We've been trying to understand exactly what issues and what problems those that have had to work with FISA have had to address as they went about their business.
At some point in the fall, we will look at whatever legislative fixes need to be made. A lot I think depends on information that you give us about the threat. And certainly the NIE is one issue that we want to be very careful in evaluating. But I also think that we don't want to be stampeded to make changes that ultimately may—we may have to change because we didn't do it carefully and in a regular way.
Sounds reasonable enough. In the end, however, careful consideration went out the window and Reyes and his Democratic colleagues were indeed stampeded into action on a bill that Nancy Pelosi said yesterday "does violence to the Constitution." (For the record, Reyes and Pelosi were among the 183 members of Congress who voted against the FISA legislation.) The Democrats' haste on FISA seems to have more to do with politics than with crafting sound policy. The New York Times notes today that if the bill had stalled, "that would have left Democratic lawmakers, long anxious about appearing weak on national security issues, facing an August spent fending off charges from Republicans that they had left Americans exposed to threats." The Washington Post reports "that Democrats facing reelection next year in conservative districts helped propel the bill to a quick approval. Adding to the pressures they felt were recent intelligence reports about threatening new al-Qaeda activity in Pakistan and the disclosure by House Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) of a secret court ruling earlier this year that complicated the wiretapping of purely foreign communications that happen to pass through a communications node on U.S. soil."
Now, the Democrats can rest easily over the August recess, knowing that they haven't left themselves vulnerable to political attacks. The rest of us can worry about whether the NSA is using its enhanced surveillance authority to spy on Americans.
Comments
"Another question that's worth asking is why the Democratic leadership?Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid in particular?allowed their caucus to be rushed into action on this bill, bowing to pressure from the White House and congressional Republicans, who have been agitating for a FISA fix."
That's an extremely generous way to phrase the question, given that when congress was controlled by the Republicans, they couldn't manage to get the bill passed. Now the Dems are running the show, and somehow it manages to become law.
The party that sold itself in the last election as standing AGAINST this sort of wholesale destruction of the protections of Bill of Rights is now seen to be the primary agent of the very thing they said they opposed.
This sort of duplicity and dishonesty is what led me to leave my lifelong affiliation with the Democratic party behind several years ago.
Give Me Ron Paul and Liberty, and To Hell with the deceitful Democrats and their equally evil twins, the mainstream Republicans!
Constitutional Protections?
http://www.freedomfchs.com/unwarranted_surveillance.pdf
It seems improbable that the incidents described below can happen multiple times a day, for the past 6 years, in two different states without the knowledge of, participation in and protection of rogue elements of law enforcement, including federal agencies. Sadly, one is left with only one conclusion, that warrant less surveillance, in the form of criminal menacing, harassment under the color of law, reckless endangerment, and using vehicles as deadly weapons, are illegal COINTELPRO/MKULTRA-like tactics employed by government intelligence agencies against innocent citizens for purposes of denying First, Fourth and Fourteenth Amendment rights. http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/church finalreportIIIa.htm
It begins with ...
Criminal Menacing/Aggravated Stalking and Death Threats
? being tailgated by vehicles with high beams glaring, menacingly in your rear view mirror. Eventually, your local police begin eyeballing you in traffic, as if they know who you are. It begins when you notice license plates that end in JEW, JFK, D1E, XXX, WOW, GUN, WAR, NSA, FED, EVL, GIT and RF N MF.
It begins with daily sightings of former Chevrolet Impala police cruisers, now re-painted in civilian colors with blacked-out tinted windows. It begins with sightings of unmarked Ford Crown Victorias and Mercury Marauders
Fourth Amendment Violations begin with ?
? phone taps ... hearing echos of your voice when leaving yourself messages, noting perp license plates. It begins with "directed conversations", when your friends and co-workers conversations mirror exchanges between you and your wife, spoken only between the two of you, in the privacy of your own home or car.
Selective Enforcement begins with ?
Your local police inability to find the CD you provided documenting your targeting, and detectives believing the garrote found hanging from a tree in your front yard got there due to "high winds". After taking pictures of unmarked police cars blocking the right of way, the police cars aggressively follow you into your driveway. After questioning why you were taking their picture, you offer the detectives a copy of the CD describing your targeting; in response they literally walk backwards, as if you're offering them a package with a bio-hazard warning label.
Reckless Endangerment/ Using Vehicles As Deadly Weapons begins with ?
? oncoming unmarked white vans, daily approach your vehicle, at extrmely high speed, while dangerously close to crossing over the center line, threatening head-on collisions.
It begins with yearly nuisance auto accidents, for which the other driver is ticketed. The damage seldom exceeds $1,500. Sometimes the officer issuing the citation writes the wrong statute on the ticket resulting in the offender's case being dismissed.
Signatures of Intelligence Agencies
The military precision of these daily warrant less attacks, indicate a depth of technical resources, personnel and planning that can only be the acts of government intelligence agency/ies. Providing a CD describing your targeting, including still photos, video and license plates, to the FBI brings no response from the Bureau.
Conclusions
In a war against asymmetrical enemies such as international terrorists, fanatic personality types, in positions of public trust, are easily distracted and mislead, while having their eyes taken off the ball. Our targeting is only the tip of the iceberg. The cost to our country for this extremist behavior is already enormous and the meter is running.
"Another question that's worth asking is why the Democratic leadership?Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid in particular?allowed their caucus to be rushed into action on this bill, bowing to pressure from the White House and congressional Republicans, who have been agitating for a FISA fix."
That's an extremely generous way to phrase the question, given that when congress was controlled by the Republicans, they couldn't manage to get the bill passed. Now the Dems are running the show, and somehow it manages to become law.
The party that sold itself in the last election as standing AGAINST this sort of wholesale destruction of the protections of Bill of Rights is now seen to be the primary agent of the very thing they said they opposed.
This sort of duplicity and dishonesty is what led me to leave my lifelong affiliation with the Democratic party behind several years ago.
Give Me Ron Paul and Liberty, and To Hell with the deceitful Democrats and their equally evil twins, the mainstream Republicans!
Constitutional Protections?
http://www.freedomfchs.com/unwarranted_surveillance.pdf
It seems improbable that the incidents described below can happen multiple times a day, for the past 6 years, in two different states without the knowledge of, participation in and protection of rogue elements of law enforcement, including federal agencies. Sadly, one is left with only one conclusion, that warrant less surveillance, in the form of criminal menacing, harassment under the color of law, reckless endangerment, and using vehicles as deadly weapons, are illegal COINTELPRO/MKULTRA-like tactics employed by government intelligence agencies against innocent citizens for purposes of denying First, Fourth and Fourteenth Amendment rights. http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/church finalreportIIIa.htm
It begins with ...
Criminal Menacing/Aggravated Stalking and Death Threats
? being tailgated by vehicles with high beams glaring, menacingly in your rear view mirror. Eventually, your local police begin eyeballing you in traffic, as if they know who you are. It begins when you notice license plates that end in JEW, JFK, D1E, XXX, WOW, GUN, WAR, NSA, FED, EVL, GIT and RF N MF.
It begins with daily sightings of former Chevrolet Impala police cruisers, now re-painted in civilian colors with blacked-out tinted windows. It begins with sightings of unmarked Ford Crown Victorias and Mercury Marauders
Fourth Amendment Violations begin with ?
? phone taps ... hearing echos of your voice when leaving yourself messages, noting perp license plates. It begins with "directed conversations", when your friends and co-workers conversations mirror exchanges between you and your wife, spoken only between the two of you, in the privacy of your own home or car.
Selective Enforcement begins with ?
Your local police inability to find the CD you provided documenting your targeting, and detectives believing the garrote found hanging from a tree in your front yard got there due to "high winds". After taking pictures of unmarked police cars blocking the right of way, the police cars aggressively follow you into your driveway. After questioning why you were taking their picture, you offer the detectives a copy of the CD describing your targeting; in response they literally walk backwards, as if you're offering them a package with a bio-hazard warning label.
Reckless Endangerment/ Using Vehicles As Deadly Weapons begins with ?
? oncoming unmarked white vans, daily approach your vehicle, at extrmely high speed, while dangerously close to crossing over the center line, threatening head-on collisions.
It begins with yearly nuisance auto accidents, for which the other driver is ticketed. The damage seldom exceeds $1,500. Sometimes the officer issuing the citation writes the wrong statute on the ticket resulting in the offender's case being dismissed.
Signatures of Intelligence Agencies
The military precision of these daily warrant less attacks, indicate a depth of technical resources, personnel and planning that can only be the acts of government intelligence agency/ies. Providing a CD describing your targeting, including still photos, video and license plates, to the FBI brings no response from the Bureau.
Conclusions
In a war against asymmetrical enemies such as international terrorists, fanatic personality types, in positions of public trust, are easily distracted and mislead, while having their eyes taken off the ball. Our targeting is only the tip of the iceberg. The cost to our country for this extremist behavior is already enormous and the meter is running.
"Another question that's worth asking is why the Democratic leadershipNancy Pelosi and Harry Reid in particularallowed their caucus to be rushed into action on this bill, bowing to pressure from the White House and congressional Republicans, who have been agitating for a FISA fix."
That's an extremely generous way to phrase the question, given that when congress was controlled by the Republicans, they couldn't manage to get the bill passed. Now the Dems are running the show, and somehow it manages to become law.
The party that sold itself in the last election as standing AGAINST this sort of wholesale destruction of the protections of Bill of Rights is now seen to be the primary agent of the very thing they said they opposed.
This sort of duplicity and dishonesty is what led me to leave my lifelong affiliation with the Democratic party behind several years ago.
Give Me Ron Paul and Liberty, and To Hell with the deceitful Democrats and their equally evil twins, the mainstream Republicans!
The People are so slow to realize that the distinctions between the Democrat and Republican parties have blurred to the degree that even bothering to contrast the two becomes an act of futility.
The two parties have not been around forever, but for some reason, citizens are afraid to acknowledge that the current parties have outlived their usefulness.
Political parties changed often throughout the country's history. It's just time for that to happen again; sadly, these transitions are not painless. Change is scary to many- but it's possible. And worth it.
We need different parties, those that embrace the ideology of true Democracy, and put an end to special interest pandering by elected officials. Media & campaign reform.. no positive change possible unless that also happens.
Jethro Sez:
"If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear. They aren't listening to your conversation with your aunt bubba!! Maybe you and your aunt bubba will get blown up because no one was looking for the terrorist that did it."
A: How would YOU know if they're listening to your conversation with your Uncle Brunhilda?
'Cause they said so?
Well they said the income tax was only going to be applied to the Very Richest Americans, and that the Social Security number would NEVER be used as a personal identifier.
But I'm sure your faith in their solemn word is well placed... THIS Time!
B: If it's only terrorist suspects they're planning to listen in on, and the government is, and plans to continue to be on the up-and-up, then what's the problem with getting a warrant like the US Constitution says the're supposed to do?
Jethro Sez: "Terrorists!! Oh NO!!
I'll give up ANY and ALL my rights, if you'll only protect me from those horrible people who want to do me harm!! (Is it safe to come out from under the bed yet?)"
Blueblue wrote:
"another reason not to vote anymore; what difference does it make?"
Well, if you feel you have absolutely no choice but to vote "D" or "R", then it makes no difference it all.
Some folks don't feel constrained to the "either/or" they've been fed for decades on end.
They've taken to voting "G" or "L" for instance (as their personal leanings dictate) knowing that a substantial NON "D/R" vote is the ONLY thing that sends a message-for-change that'll penetrate the beltway bandits' thick skulls.
It's an uphill struggle, and many people would rather vote for whatever p.o.s. loser their traditional wing of the Mobius Party puts up, hoping to vote "for a winner", even when they know in their hearts that nothing of substance is going to change because their "side" won (unless it's change for the worse).
Jethro Sez:
"If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear. ..."
I believe that is the mantra of every totalitarian regime throughout history; Stalin, Hitler, Saddam all said the same thing I'm sure.
If that were really true, then the administration wouldn't be so highly secretive. Or perhaps it is true in their case, which is why they wish to hide all their activities. Any government that refuses to let the people know it's activities, but insists on the right to know all of their citizens activities is not to be trusted; whether you've done anything wrong or not. You must be aware of the dozens of people who have been released from prison over the past few years because it was proven that they were innocent; they had plenty to fear though they had done nothing wrong.
Constitutional Protections?
http://www.freedomfchs.com/unwarranted_surveillance.pdf
It seems improbable that the incidents described below can happen multiple times a day, for the past 6 years, in two different states without the knowledge of, participation in and protection of rogue elements of law enforcement, including federal agencies. Sadly, one is left with only one conclusion, that warrant less surveillance, in the form of criminal menacing, harassment under the color of law, reckless endangerment, and using vehicles as deadly weapons, are illegal COINTELPRO/MKULTRA-like tactics employed by government intelligence agencies against innocent citizens for purposes of denying First, Fourth and Fourteenth Amendment rights. http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/church finalreportIIIa.htm
It begins with ...
Criminal Menacing/Aggravated Stalking and Death Threats
being tailgated by vehicles with high beams glaring, menacingly in your rear view mirror. Eventually, your local police begin eyeballing you in traffic, as if they know who you are. It begins when you notice license plates that end in JEW, JFK, D1E, XXX, WOW, GUN, WAR, NSA, FED, EVL, GIT and RF N MF.
It begins with daily sightings of former Chevrolet Impala police cruisers, now re-painted in civilian colors with blacked-out tinted windows. It begins with sightings of unmarked Ford Crown Victorias and Mercury Marauders
Fourth Amendment Violations begin with
phone taps ... hearing echos of your voice when leaving yourself messages, noting perp license plates. It begins with "directed conversations", when your friends and co-workers conversations mirror exchanges between you and your wife, spoken only between the two of you, in the privacy of your own home or car.
Selective Enforcement begins with
Your local police inability to find the CD you provided documenting your targeting, and detectives believing the garrote found hanging from a tree in your front yard got there due to "high winds". After taking pictures of unmarked police cars blocking the right of way, the police cars aggressively follow you into your driveway. After questioning why you were taking their picture, you offer the detectives a copy of the CD describing your targeting; in response they literally walk backwards, as if you're offering them a package with a bio-hazard warning label.
Reckless Endangerment/ Using Vehicles As Deadly Weapons begins with
oncoming unmarked white vans, daily approach your vehicle, at extrmely high speed, while dangerously close to crossing over the center line, threatening head-on collisions.
It begins with yearly nuisance auto accidents, for which the other driver is ticketed. The damage seldom exceeds $1,500. Sometimes the officer issuing the citation writes the wrong statute on the ticket resulting in the offender's case being dismissed.
Signatures of Intelligence Agencies
The military precision of these daily warrant less attacks, indicate a depth of technical resources, personnel and planning that can only be the acts of government intelligence agency/ies. Providing a CD describing your targeting, including still photos, video and license plates, to the FBI brings no response from the Bureau.
Conclusions
In a war against asymmetrical enemies such as international terrorists, fanatic personality types, in positions of public trust, are easily distracted and mislead, while having their eyes taken off the ball. Our targeting is only the tip of the iceberg. The cost to our country for this extremist behavior is already enormous and the meter is running.
Jethro Sez:
"If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fear. ..."
And since I'M not doing anything wrong, I won't be needing this pesky Bill of Rights either. Hell, why do I even need this Constitution anyway? I'll just mind my own business and let the Government do whatever it thinks is necessary to keep me safe and happy. I'm sure it will all work out fine in the end.
Sean, the DemoPublicans and RepubliCrats we keep sending to DC seem clueless about what the Founders meant by "Limited Government".
They apparently think it means "Limited to whatever we feel like doing".
Who besides Ron Paul ever talks about government being LIMITED by the Constitution these days?
Any Lawyers in the House?
I would like to know if, by this action, Congress has ex post facto ratified the Administration's illegal (perhaps criminal) activites.
This was, given Bush's frank admission that he was breaking the law, one of the most clear-cut insults to America and the Constitution. From Bush's own mouth. Case closed!
Have they now retroactively given him permission?!? Have they slammed the door on future recourse and remedy?
GVC, I agree, Ron Paul is the only person in politics who bases his decisions on the contitution and other supporting documents - perhaps if we elected more constitutional scholars to office and less lawyers businessmen we might be better off. My only problem with Ron Paul is that he doesn't provide for any protections against big business other than let the market decide - the market has already decided that it collectively runs our government by bribery, coercion and perks. I'd like to see a mixture of Ron Paul and Mike Gravel and sprinkle a little Kucinich on top for that love child touch. Unfortunatley idealism is as outdated as honesty.
Jethro here again. That's not really my name of course. My gosh, I've been reading your responses and you sound like a bunch of paranoid schiz'es. I'm a born American with a family and job and I don't really care if the gov't listens to my conversations. They will soon see there is nothing interesting. They are not targeting me, or you, or anyone who is an upstanding citizen. Let them do their job. I hate the ACLU and other groups like that who try to prevent the gov't from protecting us by screaming so much about individuals rights. I think if one is a citizen of America, they need to think of the country as a whole instead of just their own personal self. That's what I'm trying to convey, if a person is doing harm to this country that our gov't needs to know about, then they have given up your rights to privacy. Unfortunately, to reach that goal we have to realize that we have to give up a part of ourselves to help others like us survive in these times.
Alias Jethro Sez:
" if a person is doing harm to this country that our gov't needs to know about, then they have given up your rights to privacy."
Uh..., NO!
According to the US Constitution, if those charged with protecting our rights have sufficient reason to believe "someone is doing harm to this country", then they obtain a warrant to look into the situation. If found to be engaged in what they're SUSPECTED of, they have given up THEIR right to privacy, for purpose of the investigation. Such suspect Does NOT give up MY right to privacy, but that IS exactly what You're supporting.
Sorry, but I'm going with the advise of the Founders, who told us NOT to sacrifice liberty in hopes of gaining security, because if we do, we are deserving of neither Liberty NOR Security, and likely to lose both in the bargain.
You can quiver under your bed in fear of terrorists, and beg the government to assume any and all powers it claims are necessary to allay your fears, but terrorists haven't won that victory over me, and I don't fear them.
Yo Jethro - you're using an alias and you call everyone else paranoid? If you don't really care about scrutiny, then why do you obscure your identity? Your argument rings hollow.
Further, you suggest that this kind of gov't monitoring is necessary to "survive in these times". You're far more likely to die in an auto accident - heck, even a lightning strike - than you are to be killed in an act of terrorism.
I have two suggestions:
1) Trade in your brain for a new one. I fear the one you have is atrophying from lack of use.
2) Grow a spine. We don't need whimpering cowards in the USA.
Jethro,
Do you think America is a remarkable country? That it has broken out of history in the last 231 years and become the most magnificent example of freedom and drive to date?
The geniuses that gave us the legal and national framework to accomplish explored and debated this to painful detail as one of the very cornerstones of a democracy. The Federalist Papers, Jefferson's diverse correspondance. The reasons why you are quite specifically wrong with your arguments is all laid out there. And they got us this far.
Maybe you should read the debate before you rattle off Rush and Hanity's talking points. Or are you still blind to the fact that this Administration and their cheerleaders are toxic to this country?
