New Giuliani Flip-Flop: Immigration
| Thu Aug. 16, 2007 9:06 AM PDT
This one's a doozy, maybe bigger than his flip-flops on the flat tax and on abortion.
Here's what Giuliani said in a 1996 speech at Harvard:
We're never, ever going to be able to totally control immigration to a country that is as large as ours, that has borders that are as diverse as the borders of the United States, and as a society that wants to be a country that values freedom -- that values freedom of movement, freedom to do business.
See video at TPM's Election Central. This is part of Giuliani's formerly understanding view of immigration and immigrants: Giuliani's New York gave many of the same benefits to citizens and illegal immigrants; Giuliani took strong measures to educate the children of illegal immigrants; he fought to keep illegal immigrants from being turned in by employers. Of conservativism's hardline anti-immigrant forces, Giuliani has said, "the anti-immigration movement now sweeping the country is no different than earlier anti-immigration movements that have surfaced periodically in American history. We need only look back at the 'Chinese Exclusionary Act' or especially at the 'Know-nothing' movement that swept America in the mid-19th century."
Kind of a good dude, right? Unfortunately, all this contrasts with Giuliani's views today. In a recent speech in South Carolina, Giuliani contradicted the Harvard speech, saying, "We can end illegal immigration. I promise you we can end illegal immigration." The former mayor now advocates building a physical fence between the U.S. and Mexico.
Willing to forgive what appears to be a simple change of heart? I understand. I wouldn't slam the man if he said, "I've seen new evidence since '96, illegal immigration has gotten much worse, we need to do something." But Giuliani's rhetoric on immigration these days is so extreme and xenophobic that the man deserves no harbor. Giuliani's plan, according to his own press release, includes a "tamper-proof Secure Authorized Foreign Entry Card (SAFE Card) for all foreign workers and students, a single national database of non-citizens to track their status, and tracking those who leave the country. In addition, Giuliani will encourage Americanization by requiring immigrants to truly read, write and speak English."
He wants a database of all foreigners in the United States! And he wants to somehow force-teach them all English! He is the Know-nothing he once derided!
This is a very different Rudy Giuliani than the one from ten years ago. Running for president will do that to a man.
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Comments
Yah-but, still Steve, what does a bunch of religious fanatics in Israel ? who are apparently (from your quote) liked less than our religious fanatics ? what does THAT have to do with the immigration comment by Rudy?
And, xenophobia is a common mental trait in the fascist brain; which is about 25% of the population. Ex New Yowk Mares, Poles, Irish, Jews, Rednecks, ? anybody could be born with a (xenophobic) fascist brain.
And, I don't think even Rudy has publicly said he wants to restrict "free speech" (yet).
Final results of Thursday's Illinois straw poll:
1. Mitt Romney ? 40.35%
2. Fred Thompson ? 19.96%
3. Ron Paul ? 18.87%
4. Rudy Giuliani ? 11.61%
People found out what a "racist" Rudy is and voted for Mitt. This is win #2 for Mitt. He will take it all the way.
Rachael H: Would "The National Prayer Network", (www.truthtellers.org) be your source of information?
I was wondering, because I took a rather large sample of your text (On December 25, 1977, The Knesset passed Israel's infamous "anti-missionary" law. This is a statute that decrees a prison term of up to five years for any gentile attempting to proselytize a Jew away from his faith) and did a google on it.
WHAM. Three matches, nearly word for word, all from one site, and it was National Prayer Network.
No confirming information ANYWHERE else on the net, and wouldn't you think that more than one site would have info on such an "infamous" 30 year old Israeli law, if it were more than a figment of some internet preacher's (Ted Pike) imagination?
This fascinating, UNbiased site also includes a little sermon entitled: "ARE JEWS STILL GUILTY FOR THE CRUCIFIXION?"
Revealing excerpts:
"If a Jewish child is born into an orthodox Jewish family, he innocently enters a religious system entirely obedient to those who masterminded the crucifixion of Jesus."
"All adult Jews who still support the pharisaic system which crucified Christ are thus linked in spiritual guilt with those who actively accomplished the act."
But here's a real zinger:
"The National Prayer Network and Jewish Guilt
The NATIONAL PRAYER NETWORK is a pre-eminent source of information and discussion concerning Jewish guilt."
Reverend Ted makes this claim on his site: "(Enticement to Change Religion?Law, 5738-1977) was passed by Knesset during Christmas week (Dec. 27, 1977) and went into effect Easter week (April 1, 1978)"
While an official Israeli government site; http://www.israel-mfa.gov.il tells us that legal numerical code is actually:
"(Judea and Samaria and Gaza Strip - Jurisdiction in Offenses and Legal Aid), 5738-1977 (hereinafter: "the Law")"
Come on out of the closet there "Rachael".
You're no more Jewish than my McCammack ancesters were Spaniards.
Yah-but, still Steve, what does a bunch of religious fanatics in Israel ? who are apparently (from your quote) liked less than our religious fanatics ? what does THAT have to do with the immigration comment by Rudy?
And, xenophobia is a common mental trait in the fascist brain; which is about 25% of the population. Ex New Yowk Mares, Poles, Irish, Jews, Rednecks, ? anybody could be born with a (xenophobic) fascist brain.
And, I don't think even Rudy has publicly said he wants to restrict "free speech" (yet).
Final results of Thursday's Illinois straw poll:
1. Mitt Romney ? 40.35%
2. Fred Thompson ? 19.96%
3. Ron Paul ? 18.87%
4. Rudy Giuliani ? 11.61%
People found out what a "racist" Rudy is and voted for Mitt. This is win #2 for Mitt. He will take it all the way.
Rachael H: Would "The National Prayer Network", (www.truthtellers.org) be your source of information?
I was wondering, because I took a rather large sample of your text (On December 25, 1977, The Knesset passed Israel's infamous "anti-missionary" law. This is a statute that decrees a prison term of up to five years for any gentile attempting to proselytize a Jew away from his faith) and did a google on it.
WHAM. Three matches, nearly word for word, all from one site, and it was National Prayer Network.
No confirming information ANYWHERE else on the net, and wouldn't you think that more than one site would have info on such an "infamous" 30 year old Israeli law, if it were more than a figment of some internet preacher's (Ted Pike) imagination?
This fascinating, UNbiased site also includes a little sermon entitled: "ARE JEWS STILL GUILTY FOR THE CRUCIFIXION?"
Revealing excerpts:
"If a Jewish child is born into an orthodox Jewish family, he innocently enters a religious system entirely obedient to those who masterminded the crucifixion of Jesus."
"All adult Jews who still support the pharisaic system which crucified Christ are thus linked in spiritual guilt with those who actively accomplished the act."
But here's a real zinger:
"The National Prayer Network and Jewish Guilt
The NATIONAL PRAYER NETWORK is a pre-eminent source of information and discussion concerning Jewish guilt."
Reverend Ted makes this claim on his site: "(Enticement to Change Religion?Law, 5738-1977) was passed by Knesset during Christmas week (Dec. 27, 1977) and went into effect Easter week (April 1, 1978)"
While an official Israeli government site; http://www.israel-mfa.gov.il tells us that legal numerical code is actually:
"(Judea and Samaria and Gaza Strip - Jurisdiction in Offenses and Legal Aid), 5738-1977 (hereinafter: "the Law")"
Come on out of the closet there "Rachael".
You're no more Jewish than my McCammack ancesters were Spaniards.
Steven: A rant about Israel? Israeli government policies? Where did all THAT come from, and what does any of That have to do with the blog at hand?
American presidential elections, and American political campaigns are NOT about what policies Israeli government has, or, in your opinion, ought to have...,
REGARDLESS of the surname of those who choose to blog about them.
I would LOVE to see some verification of THIS claim:
"Israeli law provides for 5 yr imprisonment for Christians who tell Jews about Christ."
How 'bout it Steven?
Got a link to the Israeli statute you're talking about?
Or could this be hot air?
gvc, go google yourself, here is just a part: "There is more at stake from this proposed amendment than the freedom to hand out tracts, books and Bibles in Israel. Freedom of speech is the foundation stone for any democracy if it is to exist for long. Yet this is the freedom the religious parties want to see removed from Israeli society. Israel boasts to the rest of the world that it is a democracy. The passage of this amendment could cast Israel into the same camp as other religiously totalitarian states like Iran, Saudi Arabia, Northern Sudan and Libya. The religious parties of Israel want freedom of speech removed so as to change the face of the State from a secular Jewish to a religious society in the Orthodox mold. Yet the majority of Israelis are not religious. Tension between the secular and religious has created discomfort between citizens since the formation of Israel." Bottom line, Israel is a racist state, not a democracy. I could write a book on this. I know. The point is that Rudy is following the same racist tactics as these Likud Jews in Israel and NYC, and may I add, Michael Savage in The City.
Yah-but, still Steve, what does a bunch of religious fanatics in Israel who are apparently (from your quote) liked less than our religious fanatics what does THAT have to do with the immigration comment by Rudy?
And, xenophobia is a common mental trait in the fascist brain; which is about 25% of the population. Ex New Yowk Mares, Poles, Irish, Jews, Rednecks, anybody could be born with a (xenophobic) fascist brain.
And, I don't think even Rudy has publicly said he wants to restrict "free speech" (yet).
"...go google yourself, here is just a part..."
Sentence #1: "There is more at stake from this PROPOSED amendment than..."
Farther on: "The Passage of this amendment COULD cast Israel into the same camp as other religiously totalitarian states like Iran.."
Didn't think so. Your own info makes it plain that you're talking about something some party in Israel PROPOSED, and not an existing law. It certainly doesn't support the claim that: "Israeli law provides for 5 yr imprisonment for Christians who tell Jews about Christ"
Go on and write your book. It ought to be a hoot. But I'd suggest actually READING the sources you plan to cite in your text. You'll look much smarter if you do.
And just what DOES any of this have to do with this discussion about Rudy's reversing his position on immigration, other than the fact that someone with what appears to be a Jewish name posted it?
Israel has been criticized for "discrimination in personal and civil status matters against non-Orthodox Jews." Israel only recognizes Orthodox Rabbis for the purpose of marrying couples, not allowing Reform or Conservative Rabbis to perform the ceremony
In 2003, the Knesset made an amendment to the Nationality and Entry into Israel law which prohibited Palestinian married to Israelis from gaining Israeli citizenship or residency. Critics argue that the law is racist because it is targeted at Israeli Arabs who are far more likely to have Palestinian spouses than other Israelis. The United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination unanimously approved a resolution saying that the Israeli law violated an international human rights treaty against racism. The Association for Civil Rights in Israel filed a petition to have the law struck down but it was upheld by a High Court decision in 2006. In June 2006, the United States Department of State issued a report which stated that "the Government of Israel does not fully comply with the minimum standards for the elimination of trafficking and has failed to show efforts to address conditions of involuntary servitude allegedly facing thousands of foreign migrant workers. Israel has been criticized for its policies and lack of enforcement of laws on sex trafficking. Women from the former Soviet Republics are brought into the country by criminal elements for forced labor in the sex industry. Amnesty International cites hardships placed on women in the Occupied Territories by the State of Israel. (Human rights,Wikipedia)
Please see "CIA Edits Wikipedia Entries" on this site, and also "The Faith-Based Encyclopedia" (http://www.tcsdaily.com/article.aspx?id=111504a) for ample reasons not to trust, or cite, Wikipedia as an authoritative and reliable source.
Final results of Thursday's Illinois straw poll:
1. Mitt Romney 40.35%
2. Fred Thompson 19.96%
3. Ron Paul 18.87%
4. Rudy Giuliani 11.61%
People found out what a "racist" Rudy is and voted for Mitt. This is win #2 for Mitt. He will take it all the way.
On December 25, 1977, The Knesset passed Israel's infamous "anti-missionary" law. This is a statute that decrees a prison term of up to five years for any gentile attempting to proselytize a Jew away from his faith. Proponents say this is vital to the survival of Israel because so many young Jews are being seduced away from the fold, largely by Christianity. The severity of the sentence, they argue, is warranted because such theft of Jewish souls can lead to genocide, or the extinction of a race. We demand that Goys must stop stealing Jewish souls.
Hypocrisy has a bad rap; whereas it serves as a red flag warning regarding the character of its perpetrator, it is a gift to mankind. There is no need for futile denunciations, which enflame victims' passions and rally other hypocrites to the cause. Simply ignoring a budding hypocrit serves to vanquish him before he can become dangerous. The ability to spot hypocrisy and deal with it maturely and sensibly is a valiable asset or tool available to mankind that seems vastly underused.
Rachael H: Would "The National Prayer Network", (www.truthtellers.org) be your source of information?
I was wondering, because I took a rather large sample of your text (On December 25, 1977, The Knesset passed Israel's infamous "anti-missionary" law. This is a statute that decrees a prison term of up to five years for any gentile attempting to proselytize a Jew away from his faith) and did a google on it.
WHAM. Three matches, nearly word for word, all from one site, and it was National Prayer Network.
No confirming information ANYWHERE else on the net, and wouldn't you think that more than one site would have info on such an "infamous" 30 year old Israeli law, if it were more than a figment of some internet preacher's (Ted Pike) imagination?
This fascinating, UNbiased site also includes a little sermon entitled: "ARE JEWS STILL GUILTY FOR THE CRUCIFIXION?"
Revealing excerpts:
"If a Jewish child is born into an orthodox Jewish family, he innocently enters a religious system entirely obedient to those who masterminded the crucifixion of Jesus."
"All adult Jews who still support the pharisaic system which crucified Christ are thus linked in spiritual guilt with those who actively accomplished the act."
But here's a real zinger:
"The National Prayer Network and Jewish Guilt
The NATIONAL PRAYER NETWORK is a pre-eminent source of information and discussion concerning Jewish guilt."
Reverend Ted makes this claim on his site: "(Enticement to Change ReligionLaw, 5738-1977) was passed by Knesset during Christmas week (Dec. 27, 1977) and went into effect Easter week (April 1, 1978)"
While an official Israeli government site; http://www.israel-mfa.gov.il tells us that legal numerical code is actually:
"(Judea and Samaria and Gaza Strip - Jurisdiction in Offenses and Legal Aid), 5738-1977 (hereinafter: "the Law")"
Come on out of the closet there "Rachael".
You're no more Jewish than my McCammack ancesters were Spaniards.
Submitted by Arnie (not verified) on Sat Aug. 18, 2007 7:40 AM PDT.
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