Black Immigrants, 'Model' Minority? Plus: Don Imus
| Mon Feb. 25, 2008 5:38 PM PST
In my interview with Don Imus last Wednesday, I finally got around to talking about something I rarely get to - black immigrants. More on that in a minute.
It's amazing how much we fawn over Senator Obama's being 'black' without displaying any interest in that blackness, as if being a half-Kenyan mostly ex-pat tells us all we need to know about him. All that's interesting. That's what I was trying to get at generally in my book, The End of Blackness, and in this infamous piece. I finally got to it on, of all places, the Don Imus show.
That interview with Imus was so unbelievable, you simply have to listen to it. Here's part 1 and part 2.
Continues Below
Continued From Above
Damned if Imus hasn't been doing yeoman's work in moving America's neurotic race obsession forward. I've been talking and writing about race for 12 years now, but I was gobsmacked on the air. Imus schooled a sister. When he said he was through apologizing for Rutgers, I took that to mean he was through talking about it. But he's certainly not through thinking about it, and he's been doing his homework.
Usually, people have me on for conversations that go like this: "I'd really like to know what you think about X race topic." [I attempt to address the question]. "Uh, excuse me, I don't mean to interrupt and I really want to know what you think, but what I think is _." Then the person orates for a long time on the dusty, pre-conceived, self-justifying notion they (black or white, liberal or conservative) have no intention of changing. The 'question' always turns out to be, "Haven't I just brilliantly ended the whole race thing?"
With rare exceptions, I've long known I'm invited on by "enemies" (liberals and conservatives, blacks and whites) as a mere visual aid "proving" their open-mindedness. I might as well be wearing an evening gown, smiling and vamping in the background like Vanna White. I'm just window dressing for a soliloquy. All I can do is hope that somewhere in the audience someone is actually listening, and will actually go back and read what I said and might have talked about if allowed to.
Print interviews with 'liberal' black journalists (they're really quite conservative; you must be black in exactly the way they demand) are the worst. They already 'know' I'm a Tom and talking to me serves two purposes, none of them reportorial: it proves they're 'objective' even though nothing I say or write ever makes a difference and it gives them fodder to dine out on with the other 'real' black people. "You wouldn't believe how self-hating she is." They call me names but they don't engage in actual debate. Kneejerk doesn't begin to cover it. Don seems to have done the impossible and moved beyond that.
Of course, it must be said that Imus sandbagged me.
I was, let's say, surprised' by the invitation and mulled it over for a week. When I thought I could be professional and said yes, it was supposed to be about the election and it was supposed to be short. It was neither; homey went straight to Black History month, everything I'd ever written about race, everything in the black canon about race and—unbelievably—Rutgers. See how The Man is always setting us up?
Two kids, two books, two cities, and about 15 jobs ago, I wrote a Washington Post column that I can't now find, pleading for someone in public life to admit to sexism or racism or immorality so that the rest of us could. Two of my examples where Justice Thomas admitting to having been a pig towards Anita Hill and Rev. Sharpton admitting that he'd been wrong about Tawana Brawley and paying what he owed to the man whose life and career he'd ruined with his ultimately false accusations. Until someone in public life manned up in that way, we'd all just have to go on lying about our all too human failings, waiting in vain for an example of confession and atonement.
Until then, no one could be forgiven, publicly or privately, for our momentary -ism's and we all are guilty of something sometime. Never thought that person in public life would be Don Imus and damned if the whole forgiving thing isn't much, much harder than I could have possibly imagined. What is it they say about being careful what you ask for? Offended as I initially was to be asked, I'm glad I did the show. He made a mistake, he took responsibility, he asked for forgiveness. Done, Don.
Now, black immigrants.
At The Root, a new black site from the Washington Post, Meri Danquah, a Ghanaian immigrant, writes all too briefly about the invisibility that black immigrants face in America. When, that is, they are not facing outright hostility, mostly from slave-descended blacks. She writes:
...Excited by the fact that I, a newly naturalized citizen, was about to vote for the first time, I asked my editor if he would be supporting Sen. Barack Obama, my chosen candidate.
"He doesn't do nothing for me," my editor said. "When I vote for a black man, I want it to be somebody who's really black, somebody who knows the black American experience, somebody whose great-great granddaddy was a slave, like mine. You know, those Africans come over here and just reap the rewards of everything we've worked for. They think they're better than us and white folks love 'em because they're…"
I bit my lip and listened to his diatribe against African immigrants. Surely, I thought, he's forgotten who he's talking to. That didn't come as much of a surprise. I find that a lot of people forget I'm an immigrant; more precisely, an African immigrant.
This, simply, is what I meant when I said Obama isn't black. The way the term is used, all it means is: descendant of West African slaves brought here to labor for whites against their will. How many times can I say this: I'm describing a politico-cultural reality which I reject. Yes, Shirley Chisholm and Malcolm X were of West Indian immigrant stock. They achieved mainstream black power because they kept that side of themselves out of the public eye and focused on the battle with whitey. Had they not, we'd not know their names. (My hero, W.E.B. DuBois, cruelly mocked and isolated the ostentatiously West Indian Marcus Garvey precisely because he was so ostentatiously West Indian.)
I'm critiquing the notion that all that's important about us is our historic relationship of antagonism with American whites, a relationship that immigrant blacks do not have (however similar their histories are to ours). I'm critiquing the notion that knowing someone, at some point, came from Africa provides us any useful information, if they are not descended from slaves. That, we know but we don't know diddly about black immigrants and we don't care to, black or white. I reject this.
What, exactly, do I and an immigrant Nigerian cab driver with a doctorate he can't use here in common beyond the label 'black'? Only they know, because they're not allowed to be 'black' outside of our binary slavery/Jim Crow/police brutality/segregation continuum. Native blacks see to that: when have we ever advocated for immigrant blacks unless they stray into Jim Crow territory (Diallo, etc). Our hostility to immigration is legendary; if we're all 'black,' why haven't we carved out a protective exemption for black immigrants? Because we don't feel a kinship, we don't want them talking outside the box, we don't want them changing the subject to entrepreneurship and immigration reform. And we certainly don't want them taking 'our' jobs and affirmative action slots. Too bad for 'us' they don't need them.
As Clarence Page points out, black immigrants are America's true 'model minority,' not that anyone, outside of admissions offices and hiring offices, cares.
Do African immigrants make the smartest Americans? The question may sound outlandish, but if you were judging by statistics alone, you could find plenty of evidence to back it up.
In a side-by-side comparison of 2000 census data by sociologist John R. Logan at the Mumford Center, State University of New York at Albany, black immigrants from Africa average the highest educational attainment of any population group in the country, including whites and Asians.
That trend continues in their offspring. From The Guardian:
The joint University of Pennsylvania-Princeton report found that although immigrant-origin black students make up only 13 percent of the black population in the US, they now comprise 27 percent of black students at the 28 top US universities surveyed.
And in a sample of the elite Ivy League universities the figures were even more dramatic. More than 40 percent of black students in the Ivy League now come from immigrant families. Overall, however, black students still make up only 6 percent-7 percent of Ivy League students, while 12 percent of the general US population is black. In the non-ivy league selective colleges studied, such as Berkeley, Emory, Stanford, Tufts, Wesleyan, Barnard and Smith, black students make up between 3 percent and 9 percent of the population.
This should cause jubilation at the NAACP, right? Wrong. Also from The Guardian (emphasis added):
"Immigrant and second-generation blacks are over-represented at these schools, while overall black students are still too few," says Dr. Camille Charles, sociology professor at the University of Pennsylvania and one of the report's co-authors, "which means the problem of access for African-Americans - that group which has the longest history of oppression in the US - is of even greater concern than we thought."
Charles doesn't want immigrant black students to have less access, but she is concerned that African-Americans whose families have been in the US since before the civil war and whose forefathers were slaves are doubly losing out. There is a worry that selective, usually private, universities are taking an "any black student will do" approach to diversity.
If we're all 'black', why won't any black student do?
You have to read the piece to have your mind blown. The words don't even cohere as 'black,' 'African,' and 'African American' try to make sense of themselves. Blacks who run affirmative action programs are quoted being incensed by the 'over representation' of immigrant blacks, and that 'blacks' who've fled war and rape in Haiti are seen as having 'sexier' admission essays than 'blacks' who've overcome South Central.
'Black' is simply a label which obscures more than it illuminates. That's all I was trying to say.
Comments
I'm sick of this obsession with race. What the hell is race, anyway? Obama has as many Caucasian as Black African genes, and very few of us know our ancestry more than 2 or 3 generations back. Who cares? I, as a white upper middle class professional, have more in common with him than with most white Americans. An African American Evangelical Christian has more in common with Huckabee than Obama. Enough of this foolishness!
Debra,
I have to say, Imus was paying attention to what you were saying, and it's the first time in years I've heard an AM radio host just let someone talk, and actually go deeper than the spin and sound bite. Great interview.
The thing that comes to mind, now, is the maturity and grace with which the Rutgers women handled his foolishness a while back. Maybe he learned something. Maybe he should invite *them* onto the show. Now that would be a conversation.
'The way the term is used, all it means is: descendant of West African slaves brought here to labor for whites against their will."
Who the hell do you think you are? !
More importantly, where did you get the authority to define blackness for the rest of us?
Do you live in a bubble? To deny the universality of the black experience in America serves no purpose other than an attempt to fracture any sentiments of solidarity that exist among us.
You say "We don't feel a kinship."
I think what you mean is YOU don't feel a kinship, and you resent those that do.
That's your problem, Ms. Dickerson, not ours.
Your posts are consistently filled with vitriolic anger toward black people...and you resent the idea that we generally don't like you? You're not enlightening anyone with your sweeping generalizations & attempts to evoke pity for yourself. Trust me, I would've liked it better if you were born white too...
Yeah, I know MotherJones won't print this...you don't accept criticism on your web page, period, but perhaps someone will read this and realize that Ms. Dickerson's views represent a negligible fraction of the black community.
I think hyphenated-americanism is its' own worst enemy. People in a lot of parts of the country have problems. Question is, can they extract the stick they're sitting on, pull their socks up again, and be adults and good neighbors. Illustrate the basic principles, get out and talk with people, figure out what's wrong with the overall picture, and put down some good words NOT related to money, because that's part of the greater issue here, but like, practical, non-government-dependent things that people can do to fix their communities and generally try to spread an overall pattern of good will etc. Karma. It'll be a group effort to turn things around. I think the key is learning who it is you're talking to.
Imus? Who cares. He's another blowhard with a microphone, nothing more. People listen to him 'cause they're bored.
Get UNbored, solve a problem or go help somebody. It's that easy.
The Nigerian doctoral students I knew in Miami were enrolled in graduate studies for the student green card so they could keep their jobs as local security guards, while their wives earned more serious money working as domestic help. The goal was to earn enough money here to return to Nigeria and become landowners, which apparently is more desirable than paying rent in Lagos. One fellow was working on his third PhD. The local university was happy to have him because he boosted their statistics; the number of black students and the international diversity of their graduate studies program, which translates into tuition/aid/grant dollars. Most Nigerians speak English well, which is also a plus. Of course, to get to his front door in Opa Locka, you had to step over his native-born crack-addicted cousins and dodge the homeboys armed with the automatic weapons they stole from south Florida's dwindling redneck population. Not quite nirvana.
Submitted by ChannelXRFR (not verified) on Tue Feb. 26, 2008 4:33 AM PST.
Appearance on Imus was awesome. I've listened to it several times over the past few days.
Having the race discussion, Imus is doing what he said he would do. Acknowledging the discussion is difficult and uncomfortable Professor Dickerson you took the I-Nation to school that morning. Thank you... ChanX
AlexLawyer, must be nice, as a privileged upper middle class white person, to be able to afford not to care about issues of racism in this country. 'Cause if we don't want to think about that stuff, it must not exist or be a real problem, right?
Dear Ms. Dickerson, I am a 52 year old white male. As a 9 or 10 year old my dad and I were watching the news when Dr. King's famous line was played about judging people by the content of their character and my dad turned to me and said that he could not improve on that. Well I have lived that to the best of my ability but I wonder how much good it has done. I have not seen a single black say that anything has gotten any better about anything. It is quite wearisome but I haven't lived one minute as a downtrodden minority so I will keep on and hope for the best. Yours Truly, Denzil
I loved your interview with Imus even though I do not fully understand your thoughts. I rarely hear mention of God, however my beliefs about the worth of people is informed by my belief in our Creator.God makes no distinctions based on race, and we must not either.
As a white guy, I thought your interview with Imus was fascinating. Having listened to Imus for nearly 20 years, unlike you I was not surprised in the least by his easy familiarity with your writings or his knowledge of black history. I can understand the outrage many felt after his comments regarding the Rutgers team, but perhaps it may now be somewhat easier for those non-listeners who wanted his scalp for what he said to understand the nature of the of the backlash from his listeners (and a fraction of his usually reputable guests).
Ms. Dickerson's interview with Imus was not an abberation. I appreciated his show before he got fired because it was one of the few places in the media where I could listen to important public figures (mostly political, but others as well) expound in depth and without interruption, on ideas far too complicated and interesting to be distilled to a 20 second soundbite. Mr. Imus is nearly always prepared, having read his guests books/articles/papers etc. (when he doesn't, he always begins the interview with an admission of that fact). His questions are frequently littered with those to which the listener wants an answer, but which others are too often afraid to ask. I believe these are the points raised by those who listened to Mr. Imus for years as well as folks like Dick Cavett, Frank Rich and others liberal white guys who felt they were being robbed of one of the few places in the public media where one can be entertained and at the same time hear serious people answer serious questions without interruption. Sort of like NPR with some yucks.
As Imus himself has admitted, he deserved to be terminated for his comments last April. I wonder if the outrage would have been muted had Imus's critics been regular listeners of his show. It seemed to me that many were familiar only with racist-sounding Youtube clips cut from thousands of hours if his show (most of which were clear - however incompetent - attempts at humor).
I and many others found it frustrating that - though his remarks were inexcusable - he was selected then fired as the symbol of racist-radio-talk. One one needs to do to understand this frustration, is listen to Imus's new radio station (770 WABC in NY) from 6 AM to Midnight. When Imus's show ends at 10:00 AM, you will spend the rest of the day listening to racist and sexist remarks all day, many of which will make Imus' ill-chosen words pale in comparison. The first thing that will be obvious is that Imus is the only host on the station with left-leaning politics and some empathy for those who don't resemble him in race, age, sex etc. Meanwhile, talkers like Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, John Gibson, Michael Savage, et al. say things - in serious and mocking tones - that I find far more racially insensitive. But these idiots find themselves buffeted and protected by their conservatism (after all, isn't racism and sexism part of the conservative platform these days?) Either the fact that they sincerely believe the trash they utter, or the sheer volume of the garbage they spew seems to immunize them from the kind of assault Imus faced in the "liberal" media.
I'd like to think some small amount good has come of all hoopla surrounding Don Imus's firing. Hopefully Ms. Dickerson's interview on the show will help re-ignite that discussion of race and gender we were supposed to begin back in April of last year.
Submitted by Alan Kelly (not verified) on Tue Feb. 26, 2008 7:16 AM PST.
I am an early listener of Imus, from the "Imus in the Morning" days.
If you did record that, is it your intention to transcribe the same?
Transcription is where I directly help writers, reduce writer's cramp, and help writer in their craft, writing, vs. drudge typing.
If this helps, great. If not, OK too.
AK
Wonderful interview. I am a longtime listener to Imus. He is the most under rated guy on the radio. He has done so much to help so many. Children, veterans, etc. Extremely intelligent and clever. He knows how to interview and get the best out of his guests. You were a great discovery for me. I look forward to hearing and reading you a lot in the future. What an intelligent voice you have.
What is wrong with people? It is all about the color of someone's skin!! One guy in this comment area said Only five more days till Black history month is over... This is the kind of moron we are talking about, it just proves the point of how ignorant people are ( this belongs with the AOL crazies). When will people learn it is about coming together, not the same old caveman mentality that we seem not to be able to rise above.
Prof. Dickerson,
I am a regular observer of Imus In The Morning because I feel that the show is more intellectual than other choices at that hour. Your participation is case in point. It was truly stimulating, and this article is even more so.
I am a white male who is saddened by the conduct of our past as well as what we see unfolding in front of us today. Be it the plight of the American Indian, cruel slavery, Jim Crow, our support of torture. We have much to be ashamed. Your discussion with Imus and this mind-opening piece has illustrated another that I was not aware.
Thanks.
Dale Aulthouse
Superb interview, by host and guest....and your take on Imus 2008 is spot on.
For the record: I'm 51, white male, and don't care what hue your skin is...I care about how you treat me & others..THAT'S what I'll judge anyone by, and how I expect to be judged. Period.
I also believe America cannot come together because we've been forced to define ourselves by skin color, by religion, by lots of different factors that used to be "strengths" but are now used to be divisive...long gone are the days when America came together to in fact be Americans.
And I know of the injustices that never made that completely possible...but we seems not to want to be much closer in many ways not that long ago were, in fact, a goal...
Best wishes...
Superb interview, by host and guest....and your take on Imus 2008 is spot on.
For the record: I'm 51, white male, and don't care what hue your skin is...I care about how you treat me & others..THAT'S what I'll judge anyone by, and how I expect to be judged. Period.
I also believe America cannot come together because we've been forced to define ourselves by skin color, by religion, by lots of different factors that used to be "strengths" but are now used to be divisive...long gone are the days when America came together to in fact be Americans.
And I know of the injustices that never made that completely possible...but we seem not to want to be much closer in many ways not that long ago were, in fact, a goal...
Best wishes...
Professor Dickerson: I am a long-time Imus listener who was not the least bit surprised by the fascinating interview he held with you. I suppose it is easy to dismiss him given the sophomoric comments and behavior he sometimes displays. Those who listen regularly, however, do so because of his amazing interviews which include fearless, provocative and insightful questions. Be prepared for him to now feel as if he "discovered" you! I have never read Mother Jones and first saw you on Colbert. I was impressed. Very. Your interview with Imus only impressed me more and I cannot wait to hear more from you as I know I surely will given Imus' new discovery.
Years ago heard him relay the story of how he responded to his young son when asked why people were different colors. He told the boy that people were like cars. They all were made the same and worked the same but came in different colors. My first thought was "What a wonderful way to begin teaching a child about race."
I once had the pleasure of interviewing a black co-worker who happened to be an immigrant. He told of the racism he withstood from his own race because he was an immigrant. He was told to "go home" because he was taking jobs away from other blacks. His English-style spelling was mocked by his schooolmates and were it not for the understanding and friendship of his white teacher, he would have have felt totally alienated.
We have much to learn about race and I enjoy the open diaglogue I can have about it with my friends. But I learned the hard way that open dialogue is not possible when people, regardless of their color, are locked in a dogma that cloaks their own racism.
To me, your willingness to share your perspective on the interview and Imus is the equivalent to his willingness to admit what he did was wrong and live up to his word to do better.
I look forward to hearing more from and about you.
I really, really, really enjoyed 'meeting you' on the Imus show and look forward to hearing more conversations. I am a 50 year old white woman in Florida and I get what you are saying..what's with some of these other people? You are refreshingly genuine...thanks....for helping me,and others...to think.
Nic,
If there is a universality of black experience in the US, then why are the children of black immigrants over represented in the university system? Shouldn't they struggle as much as other African Americans? While all African Americans experience racism, not all African Americans grow up in poverty or attend poorly funded schools. Racism may provide some universality of experience, but growing up in poverty and attending poorly funded schools are much larger barriers to succeeding in the US today than race.
This is why Barack Obama recognizes that his children probably shouldn't benefit from affirmative action. Affirmative action based on class would go much further to creating equal opportunity (and outcomes) for all American children than affirmative action based on race. Otherwise, at some point, affirmative action will cease to be a mechanism for lifting African Americans out of poverty and will only be benefiting the children of wealthier, better educated African Americans. Already, we can see this trend in the immigrant black community.
At the same time, while not totally refuting my thesis, I think it is important to recognize that many black immigrants come from families that would be considered poor by US standards. However, poverty is relative. My wife, who is Tanzanian, is an interesting example. She attended public schools in Tanzania and public university. She was always a top student and she attended school on scholarship. While by comparative standards, her family would have been considered poor in the US, in Tanzania her family was middle class and her father was well educated. Her older sister has a master's degree. Therefore, there was nothing unusually remarkable (though my wife is remarkable) about her success. The fact that she was succeeding as a black student, never occurred to her because everyone around her was black.
Then she started a master's degree in Law in the US. Though most of her friends are also international students (mostly from Eastern Europe), she was also recognized by the African American community at the University. When they realized how well she was scoring on her exams, they congratulated her on her success as a black student. For the first time in her life, she was recognized not as simply being a talented student, but as a talented black student. While flattered, my wife found this praise puzzling since she didn't see her blackness as a challenge to overcome and her life experience was totally different from their life experiences, which were also far from universal.
I think this is where Ms. Dickenson is right. At some point, blackness in the United States does start to break down. If African American's are content with affirmative action primarily benefiting people who don't need it, then it is fine to hold up anybody who is black and successful as an example of what can be achieved, while completely ignoring that the pathway they took is something that might not be available for others.
If African American's are content to ignore these distinctions, then it is even easier for other Americans to ignore them and to not deal with the root problems of poverty and poor education.
What is the legal definition of black? I don't think there is one. My genetics is rusty, but I don't think race is in the genome. Is it a melanin content thing - do a spectral analysis of light reflected from the skin? Is it a cultural construct? After 50 years of exposure to race obsession, I find Idon't really know.
I came here as an African foreign student. In my engineering school the black foreign students outnumbered their american counterpart. These black students came from Africa, Brazil, Europe, all over the place. Most of them were not immigrant (as known by the INS) in the sense of coming to live in the US forever. To me, all it proved was that minorities (and poor people of any color) in this country are helped enough to succeed. It's not about the color of your skin it's about class. Most of these black foreign students were very well off and were paying out of state tuition (3 to 4 times of what domestic students paid). Same goes with the black immigrants. They work hard and all black immigrants I know are not rich by any means, by they far from being poor. Again to me, I could wrong, all it shows is that colored and poor people in this country need some help. They are very capable if given a chance.
My experience with african immigrants is that they have done exceptionally well here in the United States. One of the things that I like to point out to people, who like to point to asian and indian immigrants as examples of successful assimilation in America, is that the people who come over here are typically the "cream of the crop".
The less educated, less capable, and less ambitious do not make it to our shores. The best and the brightest are the ones that get the resources to make the journey to America seeking the "american dream" and they usually find it.
After reading the column and hearing the interview, I would like to add my comment concerning the last point of the interview. I would have to say that I would "categorize" myself as Black not african-american. My family genealogy dead ends in slavery here in the US. I have no connection to Africa other than what history tells me and to be associated with another country that I have no connection to would be wrong in my opinion. So for me, an educated college graduate, successful professional at the age of 37 would categorize myself as the following:
Nationality: American
Race: Black
As for what to call Mr Obama, Hopefully it will be Mr. President. Enough said.
Dear Nic,
Every orthodoxy has its limitations, and I'm sorry but Ms. Dickerson does an excellent job pointing out the failings in the monolithic idea of 'blackness'. Who defines it? You? Sharpton? Everybody has to find their own truth, whether you like it or not.
As a long time fan of the Imus in the Morning program, I am deeply grateful to you for having summoned the courage to appear. You were GREAT! The dialog which occured between you and Imus is exactly what is needed if any progress is to be made toward finding some common understandings between peoples of different ethnicities. You made a number of thought provoking statements which I have never heard anywhere else, promoting a dialog in my own life around the water cooler and over a beer with friends. I'm really looking forward to your next appearance.
Submitted by Calvin Hill (not verified) on Tue Feb. 26, 2008 3:04 PM PST.
As a long time listener,I enjoyed the interview with Imus. In the past I have even had the fortune to call in when I had something topically humorous to say. I have even read your two books and have discussed them with my reading group. On your next appearance on Imus you may want to mention the hypocrisy of CNN hosts, during the Rutgers debacle, not disclosing they are a division of Time-Warner and that Time-Warner is a major distributor of the verbal degradation of women in general and black women in particular. Also how Hillary Clinton ran down to Rutgers during the fray but has no problem taking campaign contributions and photo-ops with Puff Daddy and Russell Simmons, two of the biggest producers of mysogynist rap.
Wow! Ms. Dickerson, kudos to you and Imus for the most excellent interview last Wednesday. I am a new listener of Imus since he moved to RFD TV in Dec 2007. I thoroughly enjoy the in-depth opportunity that you were given to share your point about race. Imus was prepared and you were surprised, yet appreciative of the respect given to you and your opinion. It was refreshing to hear about your points in depth instead of short sound bites. I plan to read your book. These conversations are helpful for us all to understand each other and live in peace.
Peace to you!
Carrie
When Imus made that comment it was the same to me as chris rock saying "toothless, pasty cracker" trying to get a laugh. Imus is a semi-comedian, twisted angry comedian but comedian none the less. His problem is that people love to hate the spineless dirtbag and were looking for a reason to aid the train wreck with his derailing. Your problem with Ms. danqua is an american reaction as most black americans don't realize that african blacks don't like american blacks for many good reasons but you take it for granted they do and act superior as usual.
It's funny that hyphenating your American identity becomes a problem when people of color do it, and usually it is a problem to people who say they're Italian, Irish, Slovak, etc.
It is important to realize that there are differences if we are willing to use the differences in deepening our humanity and accepting others. It is ridiculous to say, as the Supreme Court did, that we just need to stop discriminating--flip the switch.
Sadly, the trouble is with those who don't want to change. We continue to live in segregated communities, ensured by white-flight.
Also there are issues of class that are suggested by the article/interview. The melting pot has always been more myth than reality, with immigrants getting shafted.
I can't say I'm surprised that there would be a tension between African-Americans who have been here longer and newcomers. Seems to be the dreaded "those people" amalgamation that would suggest that all blacks should get along fine.
There will be an ever-present need to work out differences, easier than it sounds when people tend to look out for #1.
Well, I'm sick of this stuff about race too - the stuff that makes it crucial and necessary to talk about it. And Dickerson talks about it more intelligently than most. If African Americans support Obama, it should be because they support his policies and not because he is black. Because he isn't?
Submitted by Sam Thornton (not verified) on Wed Feb. 27, 2008 1:05 PM PST.
Worthwhile and very interesting article, Ms. Dickerson. Thank you.
Wasn't aware of the information with regard to academic performance by immigrants from Africa, but it shouldn't be surprising. Part of the explanation might involve their strong family support systems, always an advantage regardless of land of origin.
Heck, my wife is from Cairo and I call her black. Are there degrees of blackness? Does it have to do with skin color or length of time in country? If you're skin is black but you're from someplace other than Africa or your are but only got here five years ago does that make you something other than Black? Are there African-Canadians or African-Mexicans? This is all too confusing...
Submitted by Cynth (not verified) on Wed Feb. 27, 2008 1:15 PM PST.
A white supremacist won't care whether someone came from Africa last year or last century. Both will be hated equally and called the N-word. This squabble between people-of-color over who is "more black" is akin to those who consider mixed-ethnic people as less black than those with a "purer" heritage. Or, to use another analogy, Protestant Christians preferring not to associate with "papists" because the latter listen to the Pope and take communion every day.
Well, guess what? We're all human beings who are best judged by the content of our character. Isn't that what "the dream" is all about?
African Americans of the likes of Paul Robeson, W.E.B DuBois, Martin Delaney et al, played crucial roles in the development of African independence movements. Latter-day "African-Americans" have lilliputian intellectual appreciation of human history, hence the attempt at differentiating between "black immigrants" and "native born". So, where do we go from here? Each individual is responsible for his/her truth;live by it or deny it. Que sera sera.
"What is wrong with people? It is all about the color of someone's skin!! One guy in this comment area said Only five more days till Black history month is over... This is the kind of moron we are talking about, it just proves the point of how ignorant people are ( this belongs with the AOL crazies). When will people learn it is about coming together, not the same old caveman mentality that we seem not to be able to rise above."
[Posted by: Nick on 02/26/08 at 7:35 AM]
I agree and I am also disgusted with the racist comment by jesus666.
I recently went through a 12 week intensive anti-racism dialogue circle (training on anti-racism) and I wish EVERYONE in this country would go through the same training. It is obvious by the comments section in here as well as the crimes that go on in this country (ie: the noose of Jena 6, racism surrounding Katrina, etc.) that we have not made very much progress as a nation.
Submitted by capt (not verified) on Wed Feb. 27, 2008 1:36 PM PST.
WOW!
GREAT piece and many excellent comments.
I'm looking forward to the day when a person's race, gender or sexual preference be immaterial in what he/she has to say...Probably never happen in my lifetime, with the religious right, present administration and unbelievable bias shown by so-called intelligent people...
