Politics, Pandering, and Policy at the Pump: Who Wins?
| Mon May. 5, 2008 10:53 AM PDT
We've made it clear how we feel about the gas tax holiday being proposed by Sens. McCain and Clinton: It's a boondoggle.
Seemingly every economist in America agrees. But the economists are in the wrong subfield of punditry: they look at the relevant numbers, come to a conclusion, and violavoilà — their moment in the spotlight is over. On the other hand, political analysts and campaign correspondents, unburdened by facts, can and have speculated for weeks about a question like which candidate the gas tax kerfuffle helps more. I've avoided entering this discussion, because the only way to comment seriously is to go to Indiana and North Carolina and conduct in-depth conversations with dozens of voters.
But what the hell.
Continues Below
Continued From Above
There is some polling suggesting the universal condemnation the gas tax holiday has received from economists and editorialists has penetrated to the voters' level. Seventy percent of likely voters in a NYT/CBS poll say that politicians pushing the gas tax are doing so because it helps them politically. McCain's reputation for straight talk obviously inoculates him on this issue: 62 percent believe Hillary Clinton says what she thinks people what to hear, compared to 43 percent for Obama and 41 percent for McCain.
Obama has made hay out of the situation, hammering the idea that Clinton's willingness to pander on an issue as important as the energy crisis is emblematic of the race as a whole. The refrain is familiar by now: She is the same old politics, he represents a fresh start. She plays politics as a cynical game, he respects the voters' intelligence and speaks hard truths. Is it working? Who knows? But the fact that the situation fits perfectly into frames that the media has adopted (Clinton as untrustworthy and willing to say anything to win; Obama as elitist and out of touch with those all-important blue-collar voters), definitely helps keep the controversy alive.
Clinton is pushing hard on the issue. Her initial defense was that people are hurting and deserve whatever small relief the holiday affords. But over the weekend, she introduced for the first time the idea that she is proud not to have the experts' support. In a conference call on May 1, Clinton communications director Howard Wolfson said, "Sometimes the president will do things that the quote-unquote experts will agree with, and sometimes the president will do things that experts quote-unquote don't agree with." The comment was mocked in the press because of its similarity to the anti-science, anti-expert approach of the Bush Administration (which edits global warming reports from government scientists, for example). But Clinton has embraced this know-nothingism. She is now saying that she is happy "elite opinion" isn't on her side, because "elite opinion" doesn't understand the plight of everyday working people.
And she's gone even further:
STEPHANOPOULOS: Can you name one economist, a credible economist who supports the suspension?
CLINTON: Well, you know, George, I think we've been for the last seven years seeing a tremendous amount of government power and elite opinion basically behind policies that haven't worked well for the middle class and hard-working Americans....
STEPHANOPOULOS: But can you name an economist who thinks this makes sense?
CLINTON: Well, I'll tell you what, I'm not going to put my lot in with economists, because I know if we get it right, if we actually did it right, if we had a president who used all the tools of the presidency, we would design it in such a way that it would be implemented effectively.
Two obvious problems. First, the idea that the elite opinion opposing the gas tax holiday, which includes many liberal economists, is somehow the same elite opinion that has driven the domestic policies of the Bush Administration is a joke. In fact, it's insulting to voices on the left who use their expertise to serve progressive goals. The Clinton-friendly Paul Krugman has come out against the gas tax holiday — and he's been a passionate voice, indeed an elite voice, against the Bush tax cuts and other Bush Administration ideas that have helped to drive the economy into the ground these past eight years.
Second, the Bush Administration's problem isn't listening to elite opinion. It is the opposite — the Administration is driven by ideology and heeds experts only when they confirm previously held beliefs.
But slamming the elites, even the ones who are usually on your side, is a perfectly acceptable move in American politics. If Clinton went out tomorrow and slammed small-town Americans as an undifferentiated group, she be absolutely massacred. But economists are not a beloved bunch in Indiana and North Carolina, and they can be thrown under the bus in pursuit of a few extra delegates.
All of that said, Obama probably wins on the gas tax holiday for a far simpler reason: It takes Jeremiah Wright off the front pages. The fact that the talking heads on TV, the newspaper columnists, bloggers like me, and the candidates themselves are discussing something else — and a policy matter at that! — is a victory for Obama. But the fact that many Americans now think a gas tax holiday is a worthwhile part of America's approach to the energy crisis means that serious solutions on climate change are the likely loser.
Comments
I read it on a blog, wonder who the heck is it talking about. Please help me figure out...
Therapy
20 years of bad judgments ago,
I had a dream of presidential gold.
To rack up Black love and votes,
The Rabid Church of Hatred I followed.
I put up with vitriol and pander to the rich rascal,
"At All Costs" is my only motto,
Aw?Grandma?although I love her so,
Under the bus her White A I must throw.
The White A in me implores not to sell my soul,
The other cheek says, "Hell with the Whites, I'm sold!"
My inner turmoil tears my mask apart,
So to digress I shall discuss Iraq.
Flanked by green-eyed Nancy and punch-drunk Teddy,
We swagger down the lap of victory.
To heal the nation I need the Presidency,
For my identity-crisis I need mo therapy.
Cool, someone just sent me this... Pass it on...
Beginning June 1, 2008!!!
Join millions of consumers in a NATIONAL BOYCOTT OF EXXON MOBIL PRODUCTS until they lower the price of gasoline and diesel at the pump to $2.50 per gallon.
If YOU are sick of THEM manipulating the oil market so THEY can build indoor ski resorts in DUBAI ? then JOIN THE BOYCOTT!!!
Terms of the Boycott:
1) Beginning on June 1, consumers agree not to purchase Exxon Mobil products until gas and diesel prices are reduced to $2.50 per gallon, or lower.
2) This is NOT a boycott of vendors or service stations which sell Exxon Mobil gas and diesel. Protect the livelihood of local vendors by continuing to purchase snacks, coffee, soft drinks, hot dogs, repair services, etc. JUST BOYCOTT THE GAS, DIESEL AND OIL!
3) The $2.50 price is only a starting point. Once Exxon Mobil gas and diesel falls to $2.50 per gallon consumers will begin patronizing Exxon Mobil and will refrain from boycotting oil and gas companies for a period of at least 14 days. Companies can use this time to adjust their financial projections based on lower future profits. After 14 days, if consumers are not satisfied with the rate of reduction of oil company profits, they will begin a national boycott of British Petroleum. Then 14 more days, then Royal Dutch Shell, and so on and so on.
4) If there is a "gas tax holiday" while the boycott is in effect, the target retail price will be lowered to insure that the consumers, not the corporations, benefit from this tax break. Exxon Mobil must sell gas for $2.32 per gallon ($2.50 minus 18 cent gas tax) and diesel for $2.26 per gallon ($2.50 minus 24 cent diesel tax).
5) There is no central organization behind this boycott. Consumers do not recognize the authority of any organization to engage in negotiation on the consumer's behalf. Consumers will maintain the boycott until the target price is reached.
6) This is the first completely de-centralized national consumer boycott of the internet age. There is no single website or organizer or petition. Spread the word with your own website, blog, email, Youtube video, letter to the editor, etc. Encourage your friends in other countries to target transnational corporations with a GLOBAL CONSUMER BOYCOTT. Design and distribute your own bumper stickers and tee shirts and use the money you make to buy yourself a solar panel!
If no one has printed bumper stickers in your area yet, write - JUNE 1 - on a half sheet of white paper and tape it in your car window so we can wave to each other on the way to work.
Why Boycott Exxon Mobil? Because we can't boycott all the companies at once so we must boycott them one by one. Exxon Mobil is first as it's the largest gas and oil company in the USA. Their total profit for 2007 was more than 40 billion dollars or roughly $1,300 PER MINUTE! Exxon Mobil, and the politicians who work for them, will argue that it is not possible to reduce the cost of gas and diesel in the current market. But they figured out how to get gas way above $2.50 a gallon, let them figure out how to get it back down.
I read it on a blog, wonder who the heck is it talking about. Please help me figure out...
Therapy
20 years of bad judgments ago,
I had a dream of presidential gold.
To rack up Black love and votes,
The Rabid Church of Hatred I followed.
I put up with vitriol and pander to the rich rascal,
"At All Costs" is my only motto,
Aw?Grandma?although I love her so,
Under the bus her White A I must throw.
The White A in me implores not to sell my soul,
The other cheek says, "Hell with the Whites, I'm sold!"
My inner turmoil tears my mask apart,
So to digress I shall discuss Iraq.
Flanked by green-eyed Nancy and punch-drunk Teddy,
We swagger down the lap of victory.
To heal the nation I need the Presidency,
For my identity-crisis I need mo therapy.
Cool, someone just sent me this... Pass it on...
Beginning June 1, 2008!!!
Join millions of consumers in a NATIONAL BOYCOTT OF EXXON MOBIL PRODUCTS until they lower the price of gasoline and diesel at the pump to $2.50 per gallon.
If YOU are sick of THEM manipulating the oil market so THEY can build indoor ski resorts in DUBAI ? then JOIN THE BOYCOTT!!!
Terms of the Boycott:
1) Beginning on June 1, consumers agree not to purchase Exxon Mobil products until gas and diesel prices are reduced to $2.50 per gallon, or lower.
2) This is NOT a boycott of vendors or service stations which sell Exxon Mobil gas and diesel. Protect the livelihood of local vendors by continuing to purchase snacks, coffee, soft drinks, hot dogs, repair services, etc. JUST BOYCOTT THE GAS, DIESEL AND OIL!
3) The $2.50 price is only a starting point. Once Exxon Mobil gas and diesel falls to $2.50 per gallon consumers will begin patronizing Exxon Mobil and will refrain from boycotting oil and gas companies for a period of at least 14 days. Companies can use this time to adjust their financial projections based on lower future profits. After 14 days, if consumers are not satisfied with the rate of reduction of oil company profits, they will begin a national boycott of British Petroleum. Then 14 more days, then Royal Dutch Shell, and so on and so on.
4) If there is a "gas tax holiday" while the boycott is in effect, the target retail price will be lowered to insure that the consumers, not the corporations, benefit from this tax break. Exxon Mobil must sell gas for $2.32 per gallon ($2.50 minus 18 cent gas tax) and diesel for $2.26 per gallon ($2.50 minus 24 cent diesel tax).
5) There is no central organization behind this boycott. Consumers do not recognize the authority of any organization to engage in negotiation on the consumer's behalf. Consumers will maintain the boycott until the target price is reached.
6) This is the first completely de-centralized national consumer boycott of the internet age. There is no single website or organizer or petition. Spread the word with your own website, blog, email, Youtube video, letter to the editor, etc. Encourage your friends in other countries to target transnational corporations with a GLOBAL CONSUMER BOYCOTT. Design and distribute your own bumper stickers and tee shirts and use the money you make to buy yourself a solar panel!
If no one has printed bumper stickers in your area yet, write - JUNE 1 - on a half sheet of white paper and tape it in your car window so we can wave to each other on the way to work.
Why Boycott Exxon Mobil? Because we can't boycott all the companies at once so we must boycott them one by one. Exxon Mobil is first as it's the largest gas and oil company in the USA. Their total profit for 2007 was more than 40 billion dollars or roughly $1,300 PER MINUTE! Exxon Mobil, and the politicians who work for them, will argue that it is not possible to reduce the cost of gas and diesel in the current market. But they figured out how to get gas way above $2.50 a gallon, let them figure out how to get it back down.
She's a disgrace. She has single-handedly turned this into a freak show that will most likely result in a disastrous extension of the Bush administration. She has no dignity.
I truly believe she is setting herself up for an independant run. She's moving farther and farther from the Democratic Party, and she's trying her hardest to damage the Democrats as much as possible.
If the behavior she's exhibiting in this primary race is even a slight indication of what her presidency would be like then George W. Bush would be in serious danger of losing his "Worst President in US History" title.
WE'RE NO ANGELS--the U.S. currently consumes approx. 140 billion gallons of gasoline a year, more than any other country...
Forget ETHANOL and all the smog it causes...
In fact, the problem isn't so much the "newer low-emission cars"--the Hybrid simply gets better mileage...--it seems to me the problem is all the older cars on the road...
But how difficult would it be to turn these older cars into electric cars that charge right off a built-in grid...
It would be child's play to build an "electric channel" into freeway lanes (where there's good drainage), which electric cars could charge off of...
This where offshore wind farms have unlimited potential...
Clinton's solution to rising gas prices cannot be summarized by her proposal of having taxes on the profits of oil companies temporarily replace the tax consumers pay at he pump. Her long-term program is much more complex. It's on her site for those who want to take the time to read it.
Some voters are lazy. They're locked into their personal problems. She's been listening to them. And she responded with something that isn't too exhausting for lazy voters to understand.
It's simplistic. It's economic effect hardly exists but its psychological effect on the growing desperation of lower income families is real.
And, thematically, it fits in with the "anti-elite" aspect of her campaign, pretty much dictated by Obama's verbal faux pas.
On my side of the Atlantic, a former French presidential candidate named Corinne Lepage spoke about the way western countries are pitting their desire for motorized mobility against the hunger of the world's starving masses. There is TOTAL silence on that issue from all three candidates.
If "conscious" citizens are self-centered enough to overlook that issue, they should be tolerant toward the low-income voter who sees a tiny bit of respite in the temporary elimination of the gas tax.
Kathy,
It's not that we think it is her only solution (as lazy as you think we are), but it is that she is using it relentlessly to drum up last minute votes like the used car saleswoman that she is.
She has done this one way or another in every state pulling out every trick in the book....whether it be drinking shots, fear, gimmicks, race card, bittergate, islam, or gas tax.....it is the same story over and over every primary.
And what is really unfortunate is that "unconscious" people like me see how she is mannipulating the masses and "conscious" people like you keep defending her circus.
Lets see, according to "economists" a temporary cut in the gas tax will have no effect on prices since the oil companies will simply raise the price again. And it will increase our dependence on foreign oil because people will buy more gas. At the same price? And you wonder why people don't trust economists, or the media that reports this junk without ever challenging it.
Obama sure is running a new kind of campaign. He's got his supporters inspired to constantly trash Clinton whenever possible. Misogynists of the world unite!
How is Obama portrayed as "raising above racial politics" while still consistently getting 90% of the black vote. This is the 1968 Bobby Kennedy versus Eugene McCarthy race all over again. Like Kennedy, Clinton is carrying working class white and hispanic voters. Obama has added the African-American vote to McCarthy's elitist college educated constituency.
Face it, if Obama were getting the same percentage of african american votes that Clinton is getting among women he wouldn't be in the race. Or put another way, if women were voting for Clinton in the same proportion blacks are voting for Obama, this race would be long over. And does anyone seriously think blacks would be voting for Obama in these numbers if he was white? I doubt anyone would make that argument. The reality is most blacks understand that electing Obama would further break down barriers to their advancement. And they are voting that way. There is nothing wrong with that. Too bad some women don't see things so clearly.
You are correct, serious energy solutions are unlikely, as the gas tax holiday debacle of Clinton and McCain puts a blight on further serious remedies of the United States economic woes. Hopefully Clinton and McCain's blatant pandering will be understood by the people and neither one of these jokers will get elected, or selected in November.
The American people have a clear choice.
Someone who has admitted to lying (Bosnia sniper fire) if offering a gas tax rebate that she knows has no chance with George Bush Versus someone who held himself accountable and took hits for a stupid pastor that he has no control over.
I think whoever we choose we will deserve that person.
I'm surprised no one on this blog has even mentioned the ridiculous idea of having a "windfall profits tax" on big oil. For me, McCain's gas holiday is probably the 2nd or 3rd worst idea I've heard this campaign season(tied with Clinton, but perhaps behind Obama's proposal). As most economist will tell you, taxing profits will lead big oil to raise the price of gas and other commodities to make up the difference. It will also increase our dependence on foreign oil, and will likely cut domestic research on alternatives.
It's not all-right Ma. Clinton is a woman and Obama is a black man. That's all voter's see?
How about Porky is a pig and Daffy is a duck? Same difference.
It may be all you see Ma, but don't put it on the rest of us, thank you very much.
As most economist will tell you, taxing profits will lead big oil to raise the price of gas and other commodities to make up the difference. It will also increase our dependence on foreign oil, and will likely cut domestic research on alternatives.
The argument of the corporate economists for why making their companies pay taxes is a bad idea. The reality is the oil companies charge whatever the market will bare now. They can't raise the price just because they have to pay higher taxes.
The problem with you people are that you just don't get middle class folks and you never will. So what if it is only a little bit of money? Average people crave SOMETHING and Obama is not serving up anything. If the Democrats nominate Obama they will lose AGAIN! Wake up and smell the Starbuck's non-fat, no froth latte.
Your half right, since any profit tax is likely to apply to domestic oil companies, big oil wont be able to raise prices. If they did raise prices, they would be giving foreign oil a price advantage, thus there increased market share of American energy. Even if domestic oil doesn't raise prices, they are still at a cost disadvantage with foreign oil. Which will eventually, give them a bigger market share. So its lose lose for both big oil and America.
"taxing profits will lead big oil to raise the price of gas and other commodities to make up the difference."
"Your half right, since any profit tax is likely to apply to domestic oil companies, big oil wont be able to raise prices."
Which is it? Lets be clear - someone is going to pay taxes. Right now the oil companies are making record profits so they can afford to pay more. Consumers are paying record amounts for gas. They can't afford it. Clinton's proposal is to temporarily transfer the burden of taxes from those who can't afford it to those who can.
The corporate economists keep coming up with conflicting excuses for why its a bad idea for their corporate bosses to pay higher taxes. That's what they get paid for.
The reality is that a temporary moratorium on the gas tax this summer will have almost no significant long term impact of any kind, good or bad. What it will do is use some of those huge profits the oil companies are making from the run-up in gas prices to give gas guzzling consumers a temporary break.
That is not a bad thing whether it is politically popular or not. If you don't address the long term problem by getting people to conserve and reduce gas consumption, that will be a bad thing whether there is a moratorium this summer or not.
"Which is it? Lets be clear - someone is going to pay taxes. Right now the oil companies are making record profits so they can afford to pay more. Consumers are paying record amounts for gas. They can't afford it. Clinton's proposal is to temporarily transfer the burden of taxes from those who can't afford it to those who can."
You misunderstand me, I was giving two different scenarios. One in which oil companies eat the loss from the tax(giving foreigners a longterm cost advantage), and one in which they raise prices(giving foreigners a price advantage). In either case foreign oil companies will be gaining an advantage of some kind.
As for your assertion that oil companies can afford to pay more taxes since there doing so well....do you then agree that when big oil is doing poorly and working Americans are doing well that we should then raise taxes for them, and give the proceeds to oil companies? Thats fair, right?
Look, if Americans are really committed to energy independence and stopping global warming, then leaving gas prices and oil companies alone is the best way to do it.
What is most disturbing to me about the debate over the gas tax holiday is the reason and timing for suggesting it. First of all, it won't happen, so this is simply an attempt to curry favor with voters who support whomever throws them a bone - even if it is an imaginary bone. Second, it is an insult to voters (in this case Indiana and North Carolina) to think that their votes can be bought so cheeply . Everybody may not be as smart as Senator Obama nor Senator Clinton, but I don't think they are as dumb as Senator Clinton's proposition assumes that they are.
As a long time supporter of the Clinton's, her comments of the past few weeks (about Wright, Iran and the gas tax in particular), have been bitterly disappointing. This is someone I respected and felt would make an excellent leader but has now allowed herself - perhaps as the result of too many political cooks in her strategy kitchen - to engage in desperate, wild eyed pandering for votes.
How could she betray us by behaving like this?
It is astonishing to read Obama supporters comments. I have never witnessed so much emotional attachment to this man. This is truly a movement... whatever that means.
Obama supporters must act with heart and brain and understand that both Clinton and Obama are similar in political values. Yet, the Obama camp seems to jock Obama so hard that any criticism about him is wrong. I support Clinton and consider her to be the smartest candidate, yet I'm not emotionally attach to her. In fact, if Obama gets the nomination I'll be the first to support his candidacy.
So, Obama suppporters, get over the crying and whining. Let the candidates hash it out and let us vote.
Submitted by Idiots guide to pandering & name calling (not verified) on Mon May. 5, 2008 5:36 PM PDT.
Latte politics anyone? Lets just keep repeating nonsensical attacks like 'Volvo driving, limousine liberals' until the idiots repeat the phrases and attack smart honest ideas and candidates as elitist. Never mind the fact that all the nonsensical phrases and pandering in the world don't make up for policies that hurt those we claim to serve, they're just foolish enough to buy it.
Wow, Federico, I guess you keep getting your opinions handed to you by the comedy geniuses over at SNL and some of the jesters at Fox, who have created this concept that Obama supporters are some sort of cultish nuts [drinking the Koolaid]. There was not one post on this article that had the tone of a whiner nor did I read anything that seemed to have been written by someone who was crying. I'll vote for Clinton by default if she gets in, but I'd rather vote for Obama, who I believe in, than follow the old, politics-as-usual notion of voting for someone with a clothespin on your nose.
The wave of the future is Hydrogen Cars--the holdup is in getting the stuff to the gas stations...
Such problem is nonexistent regarding fueling airliners with Hydrogen...
Dirt cheap Hydrogen could be made with Solar Energy...
Something smells fishy...
OR IS IT JUST ME???????????????????
That isn't corporate economists making it up, that is reality. Corporations don't actually pay taxes, consumers pay taxes. And yes, the oil companies WILL raise the price in order to cover the cost of the new Windfall Tax. A corporations only job is to make money off of the product. As much as possible. Cost to corporation increases and then cost to consumer increases. Rest assured, we are not near the top of what the market will bear yet. When it is $5 or $6 or $7 we will still pay it. We won't rent as many movies or buy as many new clothes, but we will fill our tanks. Suburban sprawl has made that a necessity. We have to go to work, but we don't have to go out to lunch while we are there. Senator Clinton's plan is a bad one because it will not benefit the end user enough, and it will cause the price of gas to remain high or go up so that the oil companies can maintain their profits.
Posted by: Dawn on 05/05/08 at 4:34 PM
The problem with you people are that you just don't get middle class folks and you never will. So what if it is only a little bit of money? Average people crave SOMETHING and Obama is not serving up anything. If the Democrats nominate Obama they will lose AGAIN! Wake up and smell the Starbuck's non-fat, no froth latte.
........
That is not true at all and I don't understand why you people don't get it. If you get the Gas Tax Holiday they will raise the price and you get NOTHING ANYWAY!!! Obama wants to take the tax cuts that Bush gave to the rich away from them and give them to Middle Class America and that adds up to more then 30 cents a day..
Come on People Lets get real
We are now entering an era of permanent and widening world oil shortage. Both Bush and Cheney travelled to Saudi Arabia in March and each of them independently reported back that the Saudis cannot increase their output.
The price of gas will rise to whatever level is required to reduce demand to meet our limited supply. As was the case when Obama voted for it in Illinois, the price of untaxed gas will just rise to make up the difference in order to constrain demand. Then the money that would have paid US workers to repair our roads will go into the pockets of OPEC and Chavez.
World oil shortage = start thinking about how much oil its takes to War (16 gallons per day per soldier) and the Govt's "obligation as dictated by National Security."
Two things here:
Approx. 40% of "our crude" is domestic; these fellows are doing all right here...!!! Tax them and apply it toward the cost of our imports (like should we be nicely handing Big Oil its huge tax break...)
Scientists were delving into the idea of "storing" CO2 emissions in the ground, from where gas was mined...; why not use old oil fields to store a huge National Reserve...
The question of why we're not using Hydrogen Powered Airliners (so damn simple...) itself begs the question of Who Killed the Electric Car. Solar Energy could "drive" both; ha, ha--that one fellow sued to keep his Electric Vehicle Lease from being canceled--those puppies go approx. 180 miles per charge and California residents ride for FREE (home solar panels--much of the time)...!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That reminds me, time to check tire PSI again...better cold air in the tires than hot air on television...someone's laughing all the way to the bank on this oil business...yes, and a lucrative business it is...didya know you can make ethanol out of OTHER things besides CORN? Apparently THEY don't...
Have you forgotten that the black voters originally supported Hillary in droves... as Obama has proven himself, they have chosen to support him. If it were his race, they'd have supported him the whole time. Further, if black voters supported Hillary to the same extent it would just be her they loved? Why can't that be true of Obama -- oh, wait, he's black too. Is that seriously your argument?
Not only that, Mr. Wagner, but they are also developing algae that will release hydrogen naturally, so you don't even need the electrolysis to remove the hydrogen from water. I wish people would wake up to the oil swindle that is going on and demand a hydrogen economy (with a heavy dose of wind energy and solar power for the grid). We could get the hell off of the fossil fuels that are controlled by those countries who are hostile to our existence (except when we're making them rich)!
GOING ETHANOL is like jumping from the skillet into the fire (in terms of unnecessary trashing of the atmosphere)...
Energy Watch Group published an "Oil Report" (Oct. 2007) which concludes that world oil production peaked in 2006, with production starting to decline at a rate of several percent per year.
HELL, here it's very difficult for me to imagine that (somehow...) we're not being softened up for the assault on our undeveloped Alaskan Oil Fields...
LIKE THE OIL COMPANIES HAVEN'T DONE ENOUGH TRASHING OF THE PLANET ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I read it on a blog, wonder who the heck is it talking about. Please help me figure out...
Therapy
20 years of bad judgments ago,
I had a dream of presidential gold.
To rack up Black love and votes,
The Rabid Church of Hatred I followed.
I put up with vitriol and pander to the rich rascal,
"At All Costs" is my only motto,
Aw
Grandma
although I love her so,
Under the bus her White A I must throw.
The White A in me implores not to sell my soul,
The other cheek says, "Hell with the Whites, I'm sold!"
My inner turmoil tears my mask apart,
So to digress I shall discuss Iraq.
Flanked by green-eyed Nancy and punch-drunk Teddy,
We swagger down the lap of victory.
To heal the nation I need the Presidency,
For my identity-crisis I need mo therapy.
Submitted by William W. Wexler (not verified) on Tue May. 6, 2008 4:32 AM PDT.
What has happened here is that Hillary made a mistake and her campaign strategy won't allow her to correct the mistake. So, she's left with only one option, which is to defend it, and in the process she's making herself look like a fool.
She's not the first politician to have done this. John Kerry made a blunder during the 2004 election where he actually either did not hear or did not understand the question and then ended up spending the rest of the campaign explaining his answer.
I think if this issue has any weight in influencing your vote, it ought to be that she doesn't have the courage to simply admit that she was wrong. I can't blame her for that, because if she did it would explode her image as being ready from day 1... to make a decision not based on fact, not supported by people with the facts, and designed to create an impression with the American people about "the decider" that is truly a fact-free zone.
-Wexler
"Lets see, according to "economists" a temporary cut in the gas tax will have no effect on prices since the oil companies will simply raise the price again. And it will increase our dependence on foreign oil because people will buy more gas. At the same price? And you wonder why people don't trust economists, or the media that reports this junk without ever challenging it."
That's really not so hard to understand Its Alright Ma, let me explain. Remove the tax, the price drops ever so slightly, so people (some people anyway) will buy more. But since the supply won't increase just because the tax has been removed, the price will then increase (for the exact same reason that it has been increasing for the past 6 years).
"The reality is the oil companies charge whatever the market will bare now. They can't raise the price just because they have to pay higher taxes."
They can't raise the price because they're charging all the market will bare (sic} now. Are you for real? They were charging all the market would bare years ago (remember all the outcry something like 2 years ago because they were charging nearly $3/gallon?). But that hasn't kept them from raising the price. In fact it seems that the price increases have been accelerating. They *will* continue to raise the price, and we will have no choice but to pay it, because they have effectively forestalled any real progress on moving to alternative fuel sources for many years.
"The problem with you people are that you just don't get middle class folks and you never will."
Dawn sometimes it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak up and remove all doubt. I for one have been middle class all my life. Most everyone I know is middle class. I may have moved up the economic ladder in the past several years, but I am still distinctly middle class. I suspect that the majority of the people posting here are also middle class.
Clinton doesn't care about the experts because obviously she feels that her "gut" is a better guide. I think we have a pretty good idea where listening to one's gut, rather than the experts, gets us. Regardless of what "average Americans who crave SOMETHING' regardless of how meaningless and unhelpful it might be feel.
If the gas tax holiday for the summer driving season is such a great idea, I assume that Clinton or McCain has introduced a bill into congress and they are working feverishly to get it passed? Or do they intend to wait until they're elected president to get us some relief for this summer's driving? If they aren't working feverishly to get a bill passed, then it should be clear that they realize that it is a bogus idea, and they are just pandering to the poorly informed.
Submitted by William W. Wexler (not verified) on Tue May. 6, 2008 5:25 AM PDT.
Some people consider it to be a musical instrument, but only those who can't afford violins.
That's really not so hard to understand Its Alright Ma, let me explain. Remove the tax, the price drops ever so slightly, so people (some people anyway) will buy more. But since the supply won't increase just because the tax has been removed, the price will then increase (for the exact same reason that it has been increasing for the past 6 years).
Which is it? If the price is lower than it isn't the same. And if the price is the same, why would people buy it? And where do the oil companies get more gas to sell to people. Its a phony political argument.
The reality is that if you eliminate the gas tax about one third would disappear into the supply chain and the other two thrids would be reflected in reduced prices. And both parts would be replaced by a windfall profits tax on the folks who are making out like bandits - the oil companies.
"They *will* continue to raise the price,"
Only to the extent the market allows it. They set their prices to the maximize their profits.
"She's a disgrace. She has single-handedly turned this into a freak show that will most likely result in a disastrous extension of the Bush administration. She has no dignity."
More positive messages from the Obama campaign. Of course Obama doesn't know that his supporters are engaged in an ongoing campaign of character assassination on the internet. Just like he never heard Reverend Wright's liberation theology before.
If it were his race, they'd have supported him the whole time.
If Obama hadn't been in the race the black vote would largely have gone to Clinton. But the possibility of electing a black president is what is bringing the black vote to Obama. And, frankly, anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional.
As for your assertion that oil companies can afford to pay more taxes since there doing so well....do you then agree that when big oil is doing poorly and working Americans are doing well that we should then raise taxes for them, and give the proceeds to oil companies? Thats fair, right?
Finally, the real argument against getting rid of the gas tax and taxing the oil companies instead - its unfair to the oil companies. Don't tell Obama supporters that all those fancy economic arguments are just a cover for protecting oil company profits.
Submitted by ron (not verified) on Tue May. 6, 2008 6:11 AM PDT.
A temporary fix on gas tax does not help at all. If anything it stalls the need for the consumer to continue to cut down demand. I find it hard to believe that real demand is driving prices to these levels, and when the price falls, it will fall a lot.
Back in the 70s there was windfall profit tax on oil companies and they spent a lot of money within the economy to avoid those profits. It worked. I think that they need to reinstate those kinds of incentives for oil, big pharma, and several other multi nationals to invest here in the US. If they moved out of the country like Haliburton did, I would immediately cancel all of their existing government contracts, and slap a tariff on all business that they bid here in the future, as well as eliminate all related subsidies.
A temporary fix on gas tax does not help at all.
Help who? It helps people who buy a lot of gasoline. Does it solve all our problems? No. We need to get people out of their cars, we need to make vehicles more efficient and we need to reduce dependence on foreign oil. But for people who have really been slammed by the fast run-up in gas prices it will provide some relief. That may be "pandering" as Obama claims, but it is also compassionate to help people who are hurting. Suspending the gas tax isn't going to have any long term effect on the big picture, but it will provide some immediate, temporary relief for gaz guzzling consumers.
Clinton said,"We're going to go right at OPEC," she said. "They can no longer be a cartel, a monopoly that get together once every couple of months in some conference room in some plush place in the world, they decide how much oil they're going to produce and what price they're going to put it at," she told a crowd at a firehouse in Merrillville, IN.
"That's not a market. That's a monopoly," she said, saying she'd use anti-trust law and the World Trade Organization to take on OPEC.
Clinton has cast herself as a warrior for working people against the oil industry and malicious "speculators," and made that -- along with her push for a gas tax holiday -- central to her closing message in Indiana.
Obama is in the pocket of big oil. Vote for Clinton.
Submitted by Sharon Ash (not verified) on Tue May. 6, 2008 7:49 AM PDT.
Where I live, they waive the State sales tax for one weekend in August so parents can save a few dollars on the purchase of school supplies? So is my state 'pandering' to parents? No, they are just trying to help ease a financial burden. Is Hillary 'pandering' to voters or does she believe some action toward giving relief at the gas pump is desirable to inaction? The figure I have heard is that it would amount to several billion dollars in taxes over the summer months and that would be billions in the pockets of consumers. But given a choice between a person who is at least trying to take an action and a person who is not, I prefer someone who is trying to do something. The problem with Obama is that he rarely comes up with an original idea, but rather mimics the ideas of Hillary, so you can bet if the idea had caught on, he would have been for extending it through Christmas. Obama is lame!
Submitted by ron (not verified) on Tue May. 6, 2008 8:13 AM PDT.
Are there still anti-trust laws? I thought that the country was so in the pocket of big business that any and all mergers were sanctioned if not outright encouraged by the last 4 administrations. I thought that the Fed handing Bear Stearns to Chase Bank was a radical new step in the process, but clearly the thinking is that in order to compete globally, size matters.
Exactly how the US is going to dictate policy to the world as the impact of her economy on the world lessens, is one for the political scientists. Maybe the US will evolve into an economy of solders, protecting international corporations from the public will, as well as from the rule of law.
Let's stop treating the symptoms and go after the core causes for the fading economy.
Cool, someone just sent me this... Pass it on...
Beginning June 1, 2008!!!
Join millions of consumers in a NATIONAL BOYCOTT OF EXXON MOBIL PRODUCTS until they lower the price of gasoline and diesel at the pump to $2.50 per gallon.
If YOU are sick of THEM manipulating the oil market so THEY can build indoor ski resorts in DUBAI then JOIN THE BOYCOTT!!!
Terms of the Boycott:
1) Beginning on June 1, consumers agree not to purchase Exxon Mobil products until gas and diesel prices are reduced to $2.50 per gallon, or lower.
2) This is NOT a boycott of vendors or service stations which sell Exxon Mobil gas and diesel. Protect the livelihood of local vendors by continuing to purchase snacks, coffee, soft drinks, hot dogs, repair services, etc. JUST BOYCOTT THE GAS, DIESEL AND OIL!
3) The $2.50 price is only a starting point. Once Exxon Mobil gas and diesel falls to $2.50 per gallon consumers will begin patronizing Exxon Mobil and will refrain from boycotting oil and gas companies for a period of at least 14 days. Companies can use this time to adjust their financial projections based on lower future profits. After 14 days, if consumers are not satisfied with the rate of reduction of oil company profits, they will begin a national boycott of British Petroleum. Then 14 more days, then Royal Dutch Shell, and so on and so on.
4) If there is a "gas tax holiday" while the boycott is in effect, the target retail price will be lowered to insure that the consumers, not the corporations, benefit from this tax break. Exxon Mobil must sell gas for $2.32 per gallon ($2.50 minus 18 cent gas tax) and diesel for $2.26 per gallon ($2.50 minus 24 cent diesel tax).
5) There is no central organization behind this boycott. Consumers do not recognize the authority of any organization to engage in negotiation on the consumer's behalf. Consumers will maintain the boycott until the target price is reached.
6) This is the first completely de-centralized national consumer boycott of the internet age. There is no single website or organizer or petition. Spread the word with your own website, blog, email, Youtube video, letter to the editor, etc. Encourage your friends in other countries to target transnational corporations with a GLOBAL CONSUMER BOYCOTT. Design and distribute your own bumper stickers and tee shirts and use the money you make to buy yourself a solar panel!
If no one has printed bumper stickers in your area yet, write - JUNE 1 - on a half sheet of white paper and tape it in your car window so we can wave to each other on the way to work.
Why Boycott Exxon Mobil? Because we can't boycott all the companies at once so we must boycott them one by one. Exxon Mobil is first as it's the largest gas and oil company in the USA. Their total profit for 2007 was more than 40 billion dollars or roughly $1,300 PER MINUTE! Exxon Mobil, and the politicians who work for them, will argue that it is not possible to reduce the cost of gas and diesel in the current market. But they figured out how to get gas way above $2.50 a gallon, let them figure out how to get it back down.
Submitted by Legacy on Tue May. 6, 2008 8:46 AM PDT.
Thanks to all who pointed out the viola/voilà mistake. Fixed.
