The Hillary Hold-ons: Causing Trouble in Denver and Beyond?
| Mon Aug. 25, 2008 9:23 AM PDT
Former Congressman Harold Ford Jr., the chairman of the Democratic Leadership Council, was standing outside a Walgreen's on 16th Street in downtown Denver yesterday. It was a beautiful afternoon, and scores of his fellow Democrats who had arrived for their party's conventions were strolling up and down the 16th Street Mall, past high-end chain stores and restaurants. It felt like something of a block party. Ford, an African-American who lost a 2006 Senate bid after his foes ran an ad featuring a young white woman noting that Ford had attended a Playboy mansion party and asking him for a date, joyously greeted members of Congress, political operatives, and reporters who happened to pass by. But he did have a worry. A worry regarding Hillary Clinton. Not the Senator herself. But her die-hard supporters. Ford said that he feared that Clinton supporters who had come to Denver to demand Clinton receive the party's presidential nomination--and who were planning demonstrations and events during the week--could cause trouble.
Two blocks away, two of those Clinton supporters were hoping--and planning--exactly for that. Nancy Kirlen, a middle-aged woman from San Diego, and Kathy Skerl, also middle-aged and from Asheville, North Carolina, stood at the entrance to the Sheraton Hotel, where media credentials were being distributed, and enthusiastically told reporters of their intentions to derail the convention.
With Senator Barack Obama recognized by the vast majority of Democrats as the presumptive nominee, with Senator Joe Biden tapped as his running-mate, with no major debates under way about the party platform, the convention appears to be short on news, suspense and conflict. With the exception of one possible plot-line: the revenge of the Hillaryites. Reporters looking for a story have focused on the possible clash between this band of activists and the party.
Their goal--to get Clinton nominated by persuading superdelegates to ditch Obama for her--is certainly far-fetched. The question is, can they create enough sound and fury--amplified or not by the mainstream media--to make it appear that there is significant dissension within the ranks? Outside the Sheraton, Kirlen said she expected thousands of Hillary-backers to take to Denver's streets for a Tuesday march. Skerl lowered expectations, saying the crowd might number in the hundreds. In addition to the march, several other rallies for Hillary are planned before the roll call vote at the Pepsi Center on Wednesday night.
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Kirlen and Skerl were quick to note that Clinton is not encouraging these efforts. "It's not about Hillary," Kirlen said. "It's about how she was treated by the press. The Democratic Party did not stand up for her." She also blasted the nominating process for having given caucuses, where Obama tended to do well, too much influence. She repeated the Clinton campaign's old arguments that Clinton won more votes overall than Obama (if you count the disputed contests in Florida and Michigan in a manner favorable to Clinton).
Both women were visibly angry. They spent months volunteering for Clinton, and they feel deeply wronged. But why can't they come to the same terms with the results as Hillary Clinton has? What does it say about their efforts that Clinton is not with them? Is that not disappointing to them--and a sign they shouldn't bother? No, they assert. "That says that she is a class act," comments Kirlen, "and wants to remain a force in the Democratic Party and get reelected to the Senate." It does not strike them as strange that they are standing up for a politician who won't stand with them. "She's playing nice," Kirlen adds. "But we don't have to." Both vowed to vote for John McCain over Obama in November. Kirlen cited McCain's experience and the number of women in senior positions in his campaign. Asked about his vote against Democratic-backed legislation that would undo a recent Supreme Court decision that makes it harder for a woman to sue an employer for pay discrimination, Kirlen changed the subject and criticized Democrats for having voted for Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts. This is not about policy issues.
The Hillary Hold-ons are mostly an outside-the-hall group. Bob Mulholland, a leader of the California delegation to the convention, said that among Democrats from the Golden State there are not many former Hillary backers who are upset enough to cause any difficulty. A senior member of the Maryland delegation noted that there are some "whiners and gripers" within that delegation but no signs they want to see any scuffling at the convention over Clinton. Harold Ford did note that the news that the Obama did not vet Clinton as a possible veep choice or speak to her about it "could fire up the fringe."
Delegates are party activists, and party activists tend to rally when called upon to rally. The bigger issue is whether the resentment shared by Kirlen and Skerl extends within the larger electorate. (A recent CNN poll showed that the percentage of Hillary Clinton voters who say they will vote for McCain in the fall has increased in recent weeks.) And if that resentment is hanging on and perhaps spreading, will any noise that is created in Denver by the Hillary Troublemakers, no matter how small their numbers, reverberate among women voters elsewhere? After all, it only takes a few loud dissenters to make a good media story. ("Fox News is giving us a lot of coverage," Kirlen noted.) So while Kirlen, Skerl, and their compatriots have about zero chance to alter the outcome in Denver, they may have to settle for the next best thing: keeping alive the narrative of the Hilllaryites for McCain.
Photo by flickr user Angela Radulescu used under a Creative Commons license.
Comments
Submitted by capt (not verified) on Mon Aug. 25, 2008 9:49 AM PDT.
"The question is, can they create enough sound and fury--amplified or not by the mainstream media--to make it appear that there is significant dissension within the ranks?"
Well as long as the M$M and MoJo are willing to take them seriously - how could they lose?
lolololo
Submitted by William W. Wexler (not verified) on Mon Aug. 25, 2008 10:12 AM PDT.
David....
You know I'm a big fan.
Why nothing about the 3rd parties? Nader claims (and I believe him) that he's pulling in 5% and more in national polls. This HAS to have an impact on a close race.
What about it? Is it too toxic to touch?
Thanks,
Wexler
I'm a Kucinich supporter. I'm not putting my life on hold to go running off to Denver for a futile protest aimed at getting him some attention or the nomination. He was severely beaten, plain and simple. Are her supporters immersed in such thralldom that they can't see the obvious: she lost too! Look, the shenanigans in Fl and Mi should have been taken care of. But they weren't and apparently they'll be ignored (and yes, when someone's vote isn't counted, it is an injustive). So, it seems that Barak won.
I just want to ask them one thing. Look deep within yourselves and ask yourself this: do you honestly think she gives a s*** about you? Do you think you'll hear from her if she has no plans for running again? Get your heads out of your bum-bum.
"Fox News is giving us a lot of coverage," Kirlen noted.
Well of course they are! FOX News will eagerly cover ANY dissention at the Democratic convention. The reason should be obvious Ms. Kirlen.
A few months ago someone wrote the following: "Saying you'll vote for McCain because Hillary didn't win is like letting your house burn down because your favorite fireman didn't come to put out the fire."
Something to consider...
Submitted by William W. Wexler (not verified) on Mon Aug. 25, 2008 1:26 PM PDT.
How about this:
Voting for McCain or Obama is like calling GI Joe or The Candy Man when your house is burning down instead of the fire department.
????????
Nader '08
-Wexler
PS There's a terrific interview on DemocracyNow! today with Rick MacArthur, publisher of Harper's Magazine, who explains with facts why there's not a dime's worth of difference between Obama and Clinton, why you WILL be seeing Clinton again, sooner than you hoped for, and why someone like you could never be president. That's the theme of his new book.
Here we go again. The Dem's, and even w/o Ralph's help, are going to self destruct yet again. With an uncanny knack for grabbing defeat from Victory's Jaws they (actually, we) will put the interest of self ahead of the interest of people, country, and world, and turn America over to McCain for the next two years (and his VP for the next two).
I've been saying for the past year that we will certainly have a black president in 2010.
"The Clintons will support Obama if he retires her campaign debt of 15 million, otherwise, Obama will fail and not be elected. Understand."
... And Democrats will lose, for at least a generation, the youth vote and the Black vote. Understand?
Yeah, Hillary supporters are nothing but angry whackos. That's the amount of respect older women get from this society. Just push us out of the way for the rock star, the golden boy. I don't blame these women for wanting to be heard. We got screwed.
Unless voters really want four more years of George W. Bush with dementia, they need to stop whining about every little nuance of who didn't get a pat on the back, and get behind the Democratic Party candidate, so some of Bush's mess with democracy can begin to get cleaned up.
I'm inclined to agree with GJohnson that Hillary Clinton's present docility is partially linked to her campaign debt.
It's an interesting turn in events that she has lost control of her supporters. But she is less charismatic than Obama. Many women are less interested in Hillary per se and more interested in ANY viable female candidate.
It's that feminist preoccupation which demands Obama's head. It will only be through his substantial defeat that women will be able to reform the Democratic Party. We'll soon know if it's a couple hundred disgruntled middle-aged women -- as the above article suggests -- or if it's a strong grassroots movement.
I agree w/ Kathy and others that women have to show their unity by supporting the defeat of Obama and subjecting us to eight more years of a Repuglican president (or two). Only then will we learn the importance of compasion and understanding that is being expoused by that grassroots movement.
It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
Any of these disgruntled Clinton supporters who are going to vote for McCain because "she was dissed", or because they feel women have been marginalized by Obama's campaign better wake up and smell the "Male Chauvinist Pig" that is John McCain. To say nothing about his Mid-evil policies taking us to neoconland in the 18th century, he is the pro-lifer and war mongering Bush/Cheney supporter who voted for Bush's policies 95 percent of the time. Those policies have "dissed" women more than Obama ever could. Also, don't forget, McCain called is own wife the "c" word in front of reporters years ago, and also, as recently as weeks ago told a right wing bikers audience Cindy would make a good contestant for their "Miss Buffalo Chips" contest, bananas and wet t-shirts included! Vote for McCain because he "dissed" Hillary? Cut off your stupid nose to spite your face.
Submitted by William W. Wexler (not verified) on Mon Aug. 25, 2008 2:59 PM PDT.
"Yeah, Hillary supporters are nothing but angry whackos. That's the amount of respect older women get from this society. Just push us out of the way for the rock star, the golden boy. I don't blame these women for wanting to be heard. We got screwed."
There is more validity to your argument than Obamatrons can stand.
First, it appears as if Hillary will have more elected delegates than Obama if they seat the delegations of Michigan and Florida. So what happens if these people stick to their guns and cast votes for Hillary? Do the SDs override them right on national TV?
Hmmmm. I can't believe that Obama didn't at least make a show of offering Clinton the VP position. Bad deal. He's not done dealing with the Clintons yet.... they will be there backstage during the whole campaign working for McCain so Hill can run on the "I TolJa So" ticket in 2012.
Second, you're right, older women have gotten screwed. I know this for a fact, not because I'm a woman, but because I'm a man, and EVERYBODY got screwed.
-Wexler
I'm a 61 white female feminist, living in Florida, who has backed Obama since the day I heard Bill Richardson said something really dumb (and factually incorrect)at a house party broadcast on CSPAN before the Iowa caucus. For months I have resented the media and the pollsters shoving me into some "demographic" based on my age, gender and race. For the first few primaries I was about 60-40 Obama/Clinton--I wouldn't have minded if she got the nomination. As she became nastier, and her supporters came to epitomize the ugliest aspects of identity politics, my percentages shifted more and more against her. Nevertheless, even when they were down to 99.99-.01, I would never have said I'd vote for John McCain or any other Republican.
IMHO, the Shrillary Clintonistas will set back the opportunities for women in politics for a generation or more. The logic will be that if this is how women behave when given an even playing field on which to compete--destroying the political landscape with a scorched earth policy if they should by chance lose--then why give them that chance?
I'm afraid that between Geraldine Ferraro and Hillary (and worst of all, the Shrillaries!), even I might not be immune to this perverse logic, and would find it difficult to fault anyone who succumbed to it, however unfair it might be to the talented women of the future.
SHRILLARIES, SHUT UP!!!!!
Oh, um, Mojo...if the primary season did nothing else it should have clearly demonstrated that there is no "vast majority" of Democrats agreeing about ANYTHING! If you mean the self-appointed VOICES that have exploited their positions for their own purposes (i.e., the people who get media coverage), there may be some truth in your statement. It's just that we of the Hillary persuasion are so angry largely because those overbearing idiots have effectively stifled the voice of any true majority.
Kudos to those involved Hillary protesters! They are working as best they can to wrest our party from the hands of the influential prObama minority and return it to its constituent voters. That's democracy. I wish I were there to help them. Instead I will have to hope my protest vote against the party will combine with enough others to give politicos a wake up call. We DO want change, but it needs to start with the way we select our leaders. Until that change happens it doesn't really matter who takes power since they will have been placed there by a pitiful process of pandering to the powerful.
Do we really need to remind some people the reasons why we vote in the first place? Is it their gender - race - religion - or haircut? Or is it where the candidate stands on the issues at hand? It seems that the Hillary Troublemakers voted for all the wrong reasons. Do they actually believe that McCain's platform more closely resembles that of Hillary's? Sheer spite and ignorance will bring nothing to improve our current state and policies. It's their platform that matters.
Are they crazy or just ignorant? What! Vote for Mccain, ladies, who hates women. Look at his record on women's rights issues!Vote for McCain for 4 MORE years of dismantling the Constitution; all but the 2nd amendment of course! (They say they hate abortion but have no problem killing the already born with their guns).Which proves that is more about male supremacy than being pro-life.And on and on. Get over yourselves. See the light. Vote Obama or Nader.
Submitted by William W. Wexler (not verified) on Mon Aug. 25, 2008 4:03 PM PDT.
"Oh, um, Mojo...if the primary season did nothing else it should have clearly demonstrated that there is no "vast majority" of Democrats agreeing about ANYTHING!"
I think the biggest group of people who are agreeing are FORMER Democrats whose stomachs turned as the watched Obama pour on the right wing charm.
-Wexler
Submitted by Officer Thomas A. Porter D.P.O. MED. RET. A.P.V. (not verified) on Mon Aug. 25, 2008 4:19 PM PDT.
08/25/08
I sincerely hope all U.S. Senator Hillary Clinton supporters will protest U.S. Senator Barack Obama from being nominated and their voices will be heard loud and clear to have U.S. Hillary Clinton nominated in Denver this week. I joined the NAACP in 1975. I have fought for Civil Rights of all Americans for many decades and will never stop the rest of my life.
U.S. Senator Barack Obama has an issue about whether he is a U.S. Citizen and this is going to come out from the Republicans big time and hit our Democratic Party big time. We can not leave out U.S. Senator Barack Obama is a smart man but this does not qualify him to be president. U.S. Senator Barack Obama is no Dr. King nor can he past the mustard to ever come close to the values and dreams of Dr. King to pass the goals and dreams of Dr. King into the next 4 years in our White House.
I am sad to see my Democratic Party allowing this slip up by and ignore the rightful person to be our next President, U.S. Senator Hillary Clinton.
This will be a good convention to see the delegates voice and shout and vote for U.S. Hillary Clinton as the next Presidental Nominee! As she has all the experience to be our next President of the United States of America.
"We have lived for the past 8 years under Emperor George W. Bush and his Dick as in shoot your best friend in the face Cheney who have caused the 'Daily' Suffering and Deaths of America's Poor, Disabled, L.G.B.T. Community, Senior Citizens, Children, Veterans and the Unemployed by Economic Deprviation. It leaves no finger prints at the crime scene."
Emperor George W. Bush and his Dick caused 9/11 to happen (ever see one picture of an Airline hit the Pentagon), then they allowed the Unjust War in the Mid East to happen and then as a code name (Trojan Horse) to happen with the price of Oil going sky high. How better to bring down a country as America that is to be a Democracy to be ruled as a true Republic, than to scam and bankrupt the majority of American Bank Accounts and go into debt by the tune of 10 Trillion Dollars under their Dictatorship by the deal Emperor George W. Bush's Dick caused by hijacking the price of Oil to go up sky high.
Ask any of the American Citizens whose 5 Million Homes have gone into Foreclosure and more to come and cost of Food and Shelter and Medical and Prescriptions and the Basics to be maintained and survive if they were better off than they were 8 years ago?
Over 5,000 American Troops Killed in the Mid East for the Greed of Oil for the 1% Rich. Over 35,000 Permanently Paralyzed and Disabled American Troops from the Mid East for the Greed for Oil for the 1% Rich. Over 1 Million Iraq Citizens Murdered for the Greed for Oil for the 1% Rich. Iraq a country that had no WMD but only for the Greed of the 1% Rich at a cost to human life to cost Trillions and Trillions of Dollars for Generations to come, only for the Greed of the 1% Rich!
Under President Bill Clinton we could pay the basic cost to maintain our lives. Under Emperor George W. Bush and his Dick we now live in a 3rd World Country called America. For the young people who have no clue about reality and only want the greed in their life they are in for a huge wake up call. I hope they all have used Vans they can park by a River (just don't drink the water from these rivers) and be able to buy coffee because that is where they are going to be living by not having one ounce of fighting for the Civil Rights and Social Values we all fought for decades to make America a better country for them. As all we accomplished they have never accepted the passing of the torch. They call us the 'Old Guard'. I can surely rest assured they will age faster than we ever did.
I guess seeing their Star Bucks Coffee Houses being closed down all over the country has really put them in a deep depression. So much for their Social Values they hold so dear to their hearts.
U.S. Senator John McCain surely appears to suffer from P.T.S.D. from Viet Nam and suffers from Dementia as he can not count nor remember he owns 8 homes and spends $293,000 each year to maintain a staff to maintain those 8 homes. Nor does the many times (5 that we know of) he has had cancer make him qualified to be President. He appears to be a bigot and racist (voted against Dr. King Day in AZ.) but then that is the standard for the Republican Party of today. Between his wife and him they are worth $40 Million and his wife's business is worth $100 Million. He has voted against the Veterans and American Troops for the benefits and supplies they have needed and has failed to show up for the last 14 votes for the American Troops on the floor of the U.S. Senate. I am sure he is ready to make plans to buy a nice Nursing Home to take up living residence in.
It is time to take back America with the most qualifed person to be our next United States President and that person is U.S. Hillary Clinton. It about time that Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi gets off her high horse and supports the right person for President and that person is U.S. Hillary Clinton. Of course we can not forget that Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi is only worth $89 Million Dollars and has forgotten her beginings in government and the marches she use to protest in many decades ago.
Let us remember it is not the color, race, sex, cult religion or who has the most money to be President of the United States of America. It is who is the most qualified. I keep hearing about Change but all I keep hearing is the change in U.S. Senator Barack Obamas pants pocket. A vote for U.S. Senator Barack Obama is not going to change a thing but more change in his pocket. A vote for U.S. Hillary Clinton for President at the Democratic Convention and at the Voting Polls as if she is not on the ballot there is thing called Write In Who You Are Voting For! Wake Up America before you see it become a 4th World Country. Yes U.S. Senator Hillary Clinton will have plenty of cleaning up to do in the White House as it has been tarnished the past 8 years and the Old Navy Observatory has also by Fascist Dictators who have only cared about the Greed of the 1% Rich.
It is time to break up the Good Old Boy Club of 232 years and have the most qualifed person as our next President of America and that person is U.S. Senator Hillary Clinton!
Yes I am a Card Carrying Liberal and have always been just as our Founding Father's of America were also Card Carrying Liberals.
Signed,
Officer Thomas A. Porter D.P.O. MED. RET. A.P.V.
Retired National Outreach Chairperson
The National Paralyzed & Disabled Police Officers Association
1 Million+ Strong!
The media just doesn't get it. Many lifelong Democrats like me, who are liberal and fairminded and also want to win, support Hillary Clinton because she is a far better candidate and can win. Obama is an arrogant, slow-witted poser who is not qualified to be dog catcher. Yet I am suppose to vote for him because the DNC and the media tell me to? Think again.
Man, do I get sick of the characterization of NotForObama voters as whining feminists who can't get over it.
You have to ignore all the polls to support this narrative. Obama is WINNING among women voters. It's the white MEN he hasn't won over, (as was the case with other recent Democratic presidential candidates).
It just looks like people find it easier to blame women, for some stupid reason.
Given that tendency, it makes sense that people will blame Hillary if Obama loses.
It doesn't matter that she has repeatedly reminded her supporters that "We must do all we can to elect Barak Obama president of the United States."
It doesn't matter that some of these reluctant Hillary supporters are actually, my goodness, MEN.
It doesn't matter that the Presidential Election is open to all voters. Hillary supporters who aren't sure about Obama are assigned about the same amount of mythical evil power as Hillary was and still is.
Nah, women just screw things up, and if Obama loses, that just proves it once again.
For the record--I'm white and male. And I'm not whining. I'm a former Hillary supporter, and now I'm voting for (and giving money to) the McCain campaign. Obama was a mistake because he is inexperienced, naive, and surrounded by people offensive to most American's sensibilities of service, self-restraint, and tolerance. The party nominated the wrong person. And I, as a democrat, need to let the party know that party stalwarts like me won't support loser candidates. No whining--Just action.
It's all about what policies you want. If you want the U.S. to get out of Iraq (and not get into Iran and Russia), if you want more accessible health care, etc., vote for Obama. If you like the policies of Bush et. al., vote for McCain (who voted with him over 95% of the time.) If you vote for McCain because you wish Hillary were nominated, you don't get it and never did.
I wish some of you die-hard hillary worshipers would just admit that you cant stand barack obama because he's black. Quit hiding your hatred and yes, racism, behind code words such as "Empty suits" and the like. If this primary season has done anything worth it for people of color is to shine the light as to how some white folks (even within the democratic party) feel about people of color.
The disgruntled poor losers can derail Obama's chances by becoming unhappy hookers and prostituting themselves to the McCain campaign. They aren't Party faithful; they are simply sore losers. We voted for Hillary in the California primary. She didn't win the nomination; so we moved on.
The retired cop and the Bitter B's (rhymes with witches) are truly showing their colors. I am voting Obama but I will not be super unhappy if he loses. It will be nice to see the racists in America finally get theirs! If Obama loses we are going to feel the wrath of the world. Yes, those old Bitter B's and retired cops (Obama better watch out because retired cops have guns too) are showing their hatred. Belonging to the NAACP was probably a reason to keep an eye on the n's. Everyone knows that a cop has NEVER been found guilty of killing a man of color.
I listen to my neighbors, our community is 99.9% white, who talk about all the reasons why Obama should not be President. Of course in our little snobbish part of the world, we never use the N word, but darn if it isn't implied! All along we heard about how badly the country was going and how we needed change.
Yes! I laugh at us. The most important thing to us is skin color! It no longer matters if we pay more for everything and our children comes home in body bags! Nothing matters but we must not have a half white in the white house.
He and his wife are more intelligent than the general population. Much more intelligent than Marross who calls Obama slow witted! Who are you? What have you accomplished? Nothing, right? How dare those people rise above the rest of us! Get out the CIA and send more dope into their communities! Shoot a few more of their young men! Jail them with or without proof that they are criminals. Send then to the death chambers.
We are so much better than the Nazis. At least we have a reason for getting rid of all of the blacks. But what is it? And by the way, win or lose the election, Obama wins. Everyone has their eyes on US. I just got back from Switzerland where they think we are the horse' patootie!
I am so sick of the women that feel the need to tell us that if they can't have Hillary they want McCain. Okay,you go girl. Not one of the women I have asked about McCains politics has a clue about how he has voted and I don't think they care. So then I conclude that you are not a Democrat and you just want to be on Hillary's side because she is a woman, an older woman. Hillary is not really thinking about any of you pathetic women, you know that, right, so what the hell is wrong with you people. It seems that they all need attention. It's like a temper tantrum for grown women...if I don't get Hillary then I'm taking my vote to the other side, so there...and I need to tell everyone that I am going to do it...and I don't care if it makes no sense...I'm making a statement that no one cares about women. Jesus, get a life, ladies.
Good for you sweetie..but just so you know for future elections..you are a Republican. All of you people to need to understand that maybe you for whatever reason fell in love with Hillary and now you are going back to your true form. You cannot be a Democrat and decide to vote for McCain, even for spite, or attention or you have a pathetic life and you thought Hillary would fix it...just letting you know.. and you don't have to keep telling everyone that you are going to do it. It's like people that keep telling everyone they are going to commit suicide, just do it.
For the past 16 years America has been under the rule of either a Bush or a Clinton. At the end of the day you now have the following choice; you can vote for Obama or McCain. If you find both distasteful then you need to help change the election system in the US (proportionate representation anyone?). However, this is a side point. Personally, I think America needs to seriously consider its reputation and status abroad. The Bush years have disenfranchised the world with America. Obama sends a clear message that America has learned from its mistakes and is willing to correct them. If McCain is elected the world will continue to look away and allow America to fend for itself. As much as we pretend like we are an island of strength, our reputation does matter if we wish to be a meaningful world leader. Obama gives us a clean slate after the horrible disaster that was GW's presidency. Please consider what you are doing to the country before you decide to punish us all by voting for McCain. If you can't get over the loss of Hillary and can't vote for Obama for whatever reason, then the more conscionable choice would be to not vote.
To all the men and women who are upset about Hillary and say they are voting for McCain,
Look at what has happened in the past eight years! Now look at McCain's record! He will be more of the same and I fear an escalation of the same. Right now we have war in Iraq and Afghanistan. What about Iran? North Korea? World War Three!!!
If McCain wins I really hope there will still be a country left where we can have our "Hillary" vote in 2012.
WAKE UP PLEASE
i would imagine the 18,000,000 million voters who supported hillary clinton have a right to vote just about any way they want to, thats thier right..obamanites shouldnt defame them or put them down.or call them names thats not very smart ...,if they vote independant or republican this election, ..they can vote demo in 2012 if they chose it is thier right..but please dont threaten them..they may not like that
I think David Corn is missing what impact most PUMAs have planned.
I'm not in Denver and don't want to be. When I blog, I represent three other people who have never blogged -- my combat-vet husband, my elderly mom and my aunt.
I think David Corn would be much better off observing Obama's polls dropping right now to see our impact, because most of us aren't wasting our time anymore being "wooed."
The wooing itself gagged most of us, just like David Corn's begrudging acknowledgment that, yeah, maybe the Clintons should get some time at the DEMOCRATIC Convention. Do any of these Democrats realize they haven't won a Presidential election without the Clinton name on the ballot for more than 30 friggin' years???
HRC won more votes, in more battleground states.
She won 18 MILLION votes and Joe Biden won 18 thousand. What are you thinking?
No, as usual, the DNC is NOT thinking. Do Democrats just LIKE losing elections?????
Does it get any stupider? Seriously, when the Democrats lose in November, I just wonder if they'll ever ask themselves: "Are we wrong to hate the Clintons?"
YES, YOU'RE WRONG.
So, the four of us live in New Hampshire. New Hampshire is a vital battleground swing state. If Gore had won NH, he would be President.
Here in NH we have a few plans.
First, when pollsters call, we are now going to say we are voting for BHO (we're all registered Democrats on the rolls.) Since we are a small state, we think we can skew the polls for November, which we are calling "The PUMA Effect."
Then we are writing in "PUMA" on our ballots in November. We found out that if we write in HRC, the vote will go to the Democrat on the ticket. We want the DNC to know who we are, so we are writing in PUMA. It describes us better anyway -- we are independents now, or Clinton Republicans -- we are not Democrats.
But in November, if JMcC looks to be in any jeopardy of not winning NH (and I think he'll win it without PUMAs), we will actually vote for McC just to make sure.
Also, this is NOT about Hillary Clinton; this is about the DNC.
David Corn contends she came in "second." No, she came in first and the DNC ignored her majority vote and instead hand-picked a guy who has less experience than any candidate who has ever run for President.
The DNC has no loyalty to the people who voted in their primaries. When we vote in the general election, we have promised to flip off the DNC just as BIG as we possibly can.
Oh, and the fear-mongering about John McCain?
It just illustrates how ineffective Democrats are. They will control both the House and the Senate, and they still don't know how to use their power? Sheesh!
David Corn, I wouldn't judge how much trouble we plan on making for the DNC by how many people (who can no longer stomach the DNC) show up at the DNC's lefty lovefest.
We are out here but are out of the fray, out of the political process until November. But, know one thing -- we will not be marching to the DNC's commands in November -- and this post represetns the thoughts of 4 ex-Democrats in the battleground state of New Hampshire.
Oh, and all the personal attacks on Senator John McCain?
We came away from the primaries with BHO supporters telling us that the Clintons were racists. Now we have the BHO supporters telling us McCain is a senile old man who treats women like crap.
Barack Obama supporters absolutely disgust me.
Barack Obama was about a "new" kind of politics, right? Since when is John McCain's relationship with his wife or his ex-wife a campaign "issue"? Do you Obamabots know how to spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E.
BHO is much more like GWB than JMc is:
~ A failure as a "Uniter not a Divider"
~ No experience, but the media still longs to have a beer with him, while feeling the shiver up their leg
~ His party is his cult and treat him like he is god
~ He says things behind closed doors that are nothing like what he says in public
~ All other voices are shouted down and you are either with him or against him
~ And, last but not least, a big-time Clinton Hater
And for the poster here who is comparing Dennis Kucinich's run with Hillary Clinton's run?
Your utter disrespect for 18 million voters is part of the reason I don't want to be in the same party with you anymore.
Nor does my husband and he voted for Kucinich in the primaries. As far as my husband is concerned, the DNC treated DK like total crap too.
If you like being treated like crap and then herded into a little pen and told how high to jump, enjoy being a member of the DNC for the next few months.
Peace. See you in November, not Denver, David Corn.
The democratic process gave Obama the nomination fair and square.
The press/media treated Hillary Clinton badly? A woman as tough as she is couldn't hit back to counteract any perceived dissing? Nonsense. She's tough as nails and had a campaign staff that might well be compared to piranhas, but her campaign was not run well - too many interpersonal conflicts that kept changing her methods and message, and campaign money squandered. She just lost, plain and simple. The bottom line is - do we want another republican, with all that that entails, as our president? Me? I'm voting on policy issues. The candidate doesn't even matter all that much. I want our kids home from Iraq. I don't want a military draft in this country. I want to ensure the continuation of Roe v Wade. I want a better, MUCH better health care system (a $5000 voucher system that McCain proposes is just too stupid for words). I don't want privatized Social Security. Disaster! This list goes on and on. Yeah, it didn't really matter to me whether it was Clinton or Obama. I just want the republicans OUT!
This election will depend and hinge on Hillary`s supporters being able to forget and forgive Obama giving her and them the collective finger. As well has convincing small town bitter whites hanging on to guns and religion that attending & supporting an American hating & Racist Black Power church for 20 years while hanging out with Criminals, Terrorists and Racist is just an Black thing and nothing for anyone to be concerned about!
This election will depend and hinge on Hillary`s supporters being able to forget and forgive Obama giving her and them the collective finger. As well has convincing small town bitter whites hanging on to guns and religion that attending & supporting an American hating Racist Black Power church for 20 years while hanging out with Criminals, Terrorists and Racist is just an Black thing and nothing for anyone to be concerned about!
As everyone but politicians, Liberals & the Media knows, Action talks, Bull Sh-t walks!
Barrack sit at the feet of his friend and Mentor for 20 years, supported him with his money, his family, subjected his children to his hate filled rants and listened to hate venom spewed out against whites, Jews, American, & everyone with the exception of Blacks and Muslims!
Barrack & his wife are Socialist, American hating, Black Power Racist proven by 20 years of attending & supporting the Church of Hate and backed up by Barracks words in Dreams of my Father!
All the pundits, talking heads, Liberal drivel and warm tingling feeling below their waist, cannot change the facts.
Now, he says it was repugnant to him and he does not endorse it or agree! Anyone that drinks that Barrack Cool-Aid should seriously consider an head transplant! It is 20 years too late for anyone with an brain to accept. Either Barrack is lying or he has an serious mental problem! No one in their right mind would sit in the Church of Hate for 20 years and support it every way possible, unless they agreed with the message or they were crazy!
What if an White Republican politician had sit at the feet of his Friend and Mentor in an Baptist Church for 20 years and listened to him preach, rant and spew out racist hate bile against everyone and everything except Whites and Baptists.
Oh, The Outrage, the Moral Condemnation, The Media, Blacks leaders, all the Black Rev's would be popping out of every cracker jack box to get in on the action & check out the possibilities for Liberal white guilt and Blackmail. While all Blacks, Liberals and Democrats would be squealing like pigs caught under the gate!
Republican politicians Major and Minor would be shoving and pushing to get in front of the TV cameras and join in the condemnation, often & loudly, to show the world how politically correct they are.
Every one of the known and unknown in the universe would be calling for his head, no punishment would be enough, resigning from office would not be enough, the poor follow would have to change his name, travel incognito, flee the country! The IRS and FBI would be investigating the church, the church closed and all its members disbanded and scattered to the four winds!
What does Barrack, the Magnificent (May Peace be upon Him) have to do? Why just make an nice little speech blaming it all on his little old white typical grandmother, just throw her under the bus of his racist prejudice and if that is not enough, just whites in general!
But Wait, that speech was for the Rev. Wright and his hate rants, Not why Barrack the Chosen one, the scion of the Muslim goat herder, the deserted son of the typical black father, I am the One We have been waiting on, Barrack the Great, sit in the church for 20 years and listened to his Friend and Mentor spew out venom. That He, the Supreme One, found repugnant and disgusting but with just one little speech and never answer why the Magnificent One and his Affirmative action Wife (may Peace be upon them) have so much hate and sit in church applauding the Rev. Weight for 20 years and all is right in the Barrack cult land.
If nothing else this campaign has Exposed the racism of Blacks and the total Blinding, Unbelievable Hypocrisy, the like of any Balance or Morals that the Liberals, Democrats, and Media have! They have been exposed as Lying, Deceitful, Bigoted Hypocrites, Unable or Unwilling to face or to tell the truth!
It seems to me these PUMAS were never committed Demos, but committed feminists who for a while envisioned being bigshots at the Demo Conv. and that didnt happen, so in their selfishness and ignorance decided to make trouble because it has to be about them.
