Is Whole Foods Bad for the Planet?

Whole Foods CEO John Mackey has probably brought more people to organic foods than anyone else in the United States. And many of the folks shopping at his markets undoubtedly consider themselves to be environmentally aware. They might even believe that by purchasing their groceries at Whole Foods outlets they are doing their part to help the planet. But certainly many of them would probably be startled to learn of of Mackey's position on climate change: he's a global warming denier.
In a recent New Yorker profile of Mackey, the Whole Foods chief argues that there is no scientific consensus regarding the causes of climate change. He lists Heaven and Earth: Global Warming--the Missing Science, a skeptical take on warming, as one of his recent favorite reads. He frets that the "hysteria about global warming" will cause the United States "to raise taxes and increase regulation, and in turn lower our standard of living and lead to an increase in poverty." He adds: "Historically, prosperity tends to correlate to warmer temperatures."
Mackey, of course, is wrong about the absence of a scientific consensus, and his theory that warmer temperatures produce prosperity is, to say the least, wacky. But his embrace of climate change denial is not truly a surprise, for Mackey is an unabashed libertarian, opposed to the very idea of "regulation" and "taxes," no matter their purpose. He may be the vegan CEO of the country's largest natural market chain, but he voted for Libertarian Party presidential candidate Bob Barr last year--because Ron Paul wasn't on the ballot. There's long been a debate over whether Mackey is a do-gooder or a simply a profiteer in disguise. (The whole sock-puppeting incident made him seem more of a bizarre egomaniac than anything else).
Though many of his shoppers are concerned about personal and planetary health, his latest revelation so far has gotten scant attention. But when Mackey penned an anti-health care reform op-ed in the Wall Street Journal last August, it spurred a swift call for boycott from progressives. "Whole Foods has built its brand with the dollars of deceived progressives," proclaimed the the "Boycott Whole Foods" Facebook page, which had 33,829 members at last count. "Let them know your money will no longer go to support Whole Foods' anti-union, anti-health insurance reform, right-wing activities." A website promoting the boycott also sprang up. Mackey's anti-labor positions have also triggered considerable ire, after he compared having a union to "having herpes." But there's yet no virtual call to eschew Whole Foods because of Mackey's global warming position.
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But that doesn't mean there's no potential problem here for Whole Foods. The company, which pulls in $4 billion a year, does try to promote itself as a firm that cares about the environment. Its official blog touts climate-related causes like rainforest preservation, waste reduction, and the awareness about carbon footprint of food. During my last visit to the store, I was urged to sign up to receive my shopping receipts via email, to save paper. But their focus is on what customers can do to reduce their impact—including in one post an admonition to "vote with your dollars" by shopping at local and at socially-conscious businesses.
The company ranked among the biggest purchasers of green power last year, but neither the company nor its CEO has advocated for environmental policies in line with the views held by their customer base. Meanwhile, companies widely scorned by progressives have stepped up efforts to deal with climate change by both implementing sustainable practices and advocating for sound policy. Chief among them is Walmart, which recently joined with a number of other retailers, universities, suppliers, and the EPA to form the Sustainability Consortium. Its goal is to create an industry-wide sustainability index for the lifecycle of products. And a number of consumer-oriented businesses, such as Nike, Gap, and Starbucks, are working through Business for Innovative Climate and Energy Policy to pass climate change legislation. Whole Foods, despite its image, is not part of that coalition. And with Mackey its most visible officer, Whole Foods essentially can be counted as part of the corporate opposition to the pending legislation.
Mackey did step down as chairman of Whole Foods' board last week, but he remains both the CEO and a board member. He says that the move was more ceremonial. There's yet no indication whether this shift will lead to any changes in the company's climate-related policies.
Last year, Mackey penned a book touting the "power of conscious capitalism." He may not want his customers who care about global warming to use that power when they are deciding where to buy their organic arugula.
Comments
John Mackey
Mackey and Whole Foods aren't even all that big on natural food, David. Here's what I wrote last week in the Guardian:
good new?
new year new hope and we hope eveyone will lead a happy live
http://www.ecougg.com
http://www.ecougg.com
http://www.ecougg.com
http://www.ecougg.com
http://www.ecougg.com
http://www.ecougg.com
straw man
The idea that Whole Foods shoppers are environmental crusaders is silly. Whole Foods is ubiquitous in many urban and suburban areas, and the people who shop there, although many of them may fancy themselves liberals, are above all just people who can afford to and who run in those circles. They shop at Whole Foods because of the prestige, the quality and the fact that they have been scared into worrying that the food in the regular old supermarket will hurt them and hoodwinked into thinking that the food at Whole Foods is somehow fundamentally different. I don't think Whole Foods' bottom line would be harmed much if they stopped making anything at all of greenness.
straw man
HIDE THE DECLINE
STUPID
Hypocrisy & Mackey
There's a WF in Monterey which is about 25 minutes from where I live. Salinas has no WF or any store comparable to it. Whenever I traveled to the Monterey area, I used to shop at WF. But when he espoused his Libertarian Scrooge ideology, I decided to stop going there.
What I did find at WF was generally higher prices, but I did enjoy some of their deli entrees. In any case, I won't miss it. I believe thousands of others who feel as I do also did the same, and while we can't fire Mackey, we can surely make a dent in WF's profits by boycotting them, perhaps forever.
Mackey is a hypocrite. WF seems to adhere to some environmental policies, but he has far different views than that of the firm. He's surely entitled to his opinions, but as head of WF, he should just learn to keep his mouth shut. He's affected the bottom line, and he should just resign for the sake of the company.
I'm really much more perturbed with his health care views. Health care costs in the US are about 16% of GDP which is double than most other developed nations. Yet, the results are far below others in terms of performance ranked 37th by the World Health Organization and 72nd in terms of overall level of health.
Health care costs continue to rise along with the insurance premiums, and this is unsustainable for the majority of the American people. I'm not happy that the public option has been dropped from the current legislation, but I know that if it is passed, it will be the beginning of a universal public health care system. I believe that health care should be a non-profit making business. I don't place much trust in the private insurance firms. They've never sought to reform health care, and they will continue to resist a fair market for health care. They will always find ways of gouging the public.
Having to spend so much more on health care only diminishes the US's competitiveness in a more global market place. This is why, I believe, the US will have to have a public health care system at some future point in time.
Mackey's point about
Mackey's point about health-care was partially correct though - the country does need to work on reducing the rate of obesity and general consumption of incredibly unhealthy food. Yes, that's right, he's asking for personal accountability (eek!) from people about their own health! (eek!)
It comes as no surprise that when a man asks people to take their health into their own hands by eating better food, people would be flustered.
While I believe a national healthcare system would be a fantastic decision for the country, we can't discount that we are the least healthy we've ever been while trying to pass sweeping reform.
If healthcare is to work it would require the citizens of the country to stop destroying themselves with cheap food and inactivity. It's better to pay your grocer than your doctor, buy some fruits and vegetables, put the meat down for a little while and get a little exercise - it's really not that hard.
Applaud Dushan29
I live in Chicago, and my wife and I both made the decision to stop spending our money at WF based on Mackey's Health Care comments. I agree with 100% of what Dushan29 has posted and feel the same.
I am in Executive Management at a mid size tech company and have influence on our health insurance choices. Our company has seen 25% increases regularly in our insurance premiums during the whole time GW was in office. Blue Cross even tried to raise our rates by 36% before we pointed out our policy had a cap on increases of 25%. We are a progressive company that does provide somewhat of a Cadillac coverage for our employees, we cover their deductible in a high deductible plan, because its cheaper to pay all the deductibles and the health insurance premiums than it is to buy a plan with almost no deductible. We never want our employees to decide between rent and health care, which a high deductible would cause, we want them to get care early and be healthy workers.
However, there is a point where we can no longer give raises if health care continues to spiral upward. If you think you like your health care with your employer and you want things to stay status quo and desire no change to health care, there will be a change coming, when your plan at work becomes too expensive. Already spending 16% of our GDP on HCare vs 8% by most of the rest of the world, puts us at a huge competitive dis advantage.
Ampf wrote: "I live in
Ampf wrote: "I live in Chicago, and my wife and I both made the decision to stop spending our money at WF based on Mackey's Health Care comments. [...] I am in Executive Management [...] and have influence on our health insurance choices. [...] we cover their deductible in a high deductible plan [...] because its cheaper to pay all the deductibles than it is to buy a plan with almost no deductible."
So let me re-cap: You're an executive, and (at least partially) responsible for the plans you offer your employees. You offer the same sort of HDHP/HSA plan that Mackey offers his associates. You even share the same reason -- health care is more affordable under the HDHP/HSA model.
Remind us where you disagree with Mackey's advocacy again?
If you will...allow me LTAT
Ampf wants you and I and other taxpayers to pay for his employees health insurance where Mackey still believes providing health insurance to his employees remains his responsibility.
From the information provided, I believe that is the extent of the disagreement. The reader is left to determine which of the two concepts is a more noble approach.
But rest easy Ampf from Chicago...yes, sleep well tonight in full knowledge you and your employees future health care is being engineered by a handful of Chicago-thug-politicians behind closed doors as I type.
And what exactly does Ampf's post have to do with Mackey's stance on supposed AGW? Other than yet one more example of character assasination directed at skeptics in this current polarizing climate of alarmist driven McCartheyism....well....there is no other rational explanation.
Presumably personal attacks on folks like Mackey are why so many skeptics are are transforemed into cynics. For the time being, I think we still have the permission of the 'concensus' bureau to debate just how that nasty development is going to save the planet. Is silence and submission Mike's Nature Trick?
Additionally
The only change from eating food from Jewel compared to WF, is that i have a lot more change in my bank account, and the Jewel we shop at has an ever increasing organic department at 25% of WF cost. We did love the presentation at WF, and some of the deli options etc...but all in all we are eating just as healthy, and spending far less.
Mackey has the right to
Mackey has the right to express his political views and customers have the right to vote with their feet. Unfortunately a majority of Whole Foods customers are not idealistic progressives that care about the CEO's political views, so any boycott will have a negligible effect. As stated above, virtually all Whole Foods customers or affluent yuppies that enjoy the variety of food and the pleasure of shopping in a market that is much more enjoyable than the typical corner super market.
Mackey has some very good opinions on healthcare reform. His basic premise is to decrease regulation that prevents healthcare competition, such as competition across state lines, reimportation of meds, tort reform, etc. These reforms would lower the cost of healthcare.
The runaway cost of healthcare is the most important problem today, cheaper healthcare would allow more people to afford it and consequently increase coverage, therefore any mechanism that would empower consumers to control how they spend their dollars free from control of the corporate-political system would benefit the country.
Sheep
Mackey has provided facts, to which MJ has not countered. Imitating the Mainstream Media by declaring anyone you disagree with as 'wacky' is not an acceptable argument.
Mother Jones, of course, is wrong about Mackey being wrong about an absence of scientific consensus. A group of 1500 UN vetted "scientists" having a consensus amongst themselves is not proof of anything. Many of the scientists on the IPCC commission have spoken out in disagreement with the findings. The head of the IPCC has a PhD in economics, not a relevant science discipline, and the chief spokesperson of this new religion is a slick politician.
The global warming petition project has over 31,000 signatures of bona fide scientists who take issue with the 'consensus' bullying. http://www.petitionproject.org/
Do some research, you are being played.
No Consensus? ___ Really?
You say that 1,500 scientists agree and that SOME don't, therefore there is no consensus about GW being a fact. BTW, how many are "some"" and who are they? That petition you offer can be signed by a pet dog, it is bogus and you know it. The author of this article is correct.
Do you state that the Arctic is not now thawing and the Arctic's methane is not releasing by the thousands of tons every day during the spring thru fall months? Tell us that is false.
Read the book "When Life Nearly Died" and tell us that palientologist, geologist, professor and author, the most highy regarded by his peers, Dr. Michael J. Benton is wrong. Who needs to be educated? Look in a mirror for the answer.
There is NO scientific
There is NO scientific consensus on the theory that Man is causing Global Warming.
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_i...
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_i...
start with those.
THEORY
There are alot of "theories" Gene, and they can have a cosensus, which proves zip. You don't need a scientist to see the world's glaciers melting away , etc.
On anothe point brought up here, , the head hog of the IPCC has his degrees in economics.__ So what? The Wing Commander and or a Base Commander of a large air force base may have a degree in Business Management,or Hotel Management, etc, but he/she is the top dog of up to 7,000+ personnel and a multitude of different base facilities, from motor pool to squadrons of jet aircraft, munitions maintenance, propulsion branches, ground power, parachute shops, the hospital, supplly, base housing and maintence, abase security and police forces, etc.
They are "administrators", like a mayor of a large town, they don't have to know zip about those different facilities, they have their staffs who report to them. The same is true of the head of the IPCC, he's an adminitstrater. GW Deniers make a big deal out of that and they are really ignorant.
Climate Change
I didn't want to believe it either. If only scientific principles were the sole factors in climate change... Solar flare-ups, a 1980s vortex of Margaret Thatcher's political aspirations, cultural bandwagon influence, blind belief, industrial and corporate strategy & greed and sadly, despite all good intentions, the Green movement - all spiraling in confluence to who's ultimate ambition?? Yes, somehow, right before our very eyes, we are being played. But that doesn't mean we won't benefit from living an environmentally sustainable and responsible way of life. Promote these qualities on the local level, recreate community in the process. That's the stuff social change is made of. On all levels.
Hot Or Cold We're All Gettin' Old
Time to set the record straight, not to mention having some gosh darn fun.
All those who believe humans (or anything with a mouth or other orifice that exhales CO2) is causing GW go here...
http://www.theamericansheeple.com/globalscamming.html
All those in favor of GW being caused by shifty characters attempting (rather successfully) to scam (more) money by creating fear and paranoia, go here...
http://www.theamericansheeple.com
Okay, it's basically the same Site, but those that believe in the second option will appreciate it more than those that visit for the first option.
Either way, have some gosh darn fun for cryin' (better yet, laughin') out loud!
take your own advice
and research that phony petition before you go touting it as any kind of a last word:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kevin-grandia/the-30000-global-warming_b_2...
Global Warming Petition
Hufpo does not debunk the petition signed by 31,000 scientists - only claims that most are not Climatoligists - which is true - but if the disqualification comes from your field of science - then the head of the IPCC for the UN Climatology report is debunked - because he is not a climatoligist either.
31,000 "scientists" ??
I seriously doubt that you will find many if (any) atmospheric scientists who have signed that phoney petition, nor the NOAA atmospheric reasearch scientists, nor oceanographers, geologists, palientologists, professors of Earth Science, etc. Those who have spent most of their adult lives studying the Earth, it's atmosphere, climate, oceans, know that global warming is a fact and that during the past 200 some years, greenhouse gases in our atmosphere have soared by over 35% and that is due to human activity.
The human activity includes, slash and burn of forests, mining and burning coal and oil, animal husbandry, landfills, human waste disposal facilities, and vehicle emissions. Vehicle emissions BTW are quite low on the list of CO2 emissions but they do add a great deal of other types of greenhouse gases. Not to forget the vast increas of humans on the planet, we all exhale, burp and discharge CO2 in other ways, more so if one eats a lot of hard boiled, pickeled eggs, popcorn, refried beans and drinks beer at the same time. __A human fire hazard.
If any bother to open this link and read all of the well researched science information about CO2, methane and the other greenhouse gases, if they are inclined to not believe the current global warming is a fact, they may alter their opinions.
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/recentac.html
I realize some are now so "positive" that GW is a myth, that no one could ever alter their opinions. One such is a blogger named "Eddy" who has posted near 60 comments on this thread alone denying Global warming, from the 6th thru 10 Jan. This is the only thread he has ever posted on Mother Jones prior to then.
I sadly and perhaps foolishly replied to him to no avail and in doing so posted over 40 comments and the entire third and forth page are full of our rather stupid debate of the issue. I apologize to any who read that far into the comment section. I believe I may have done more harm than good. People don't appreciate that sort of thing, of two people repeating the same thing over and over on one thread.
If you had bothered to do your research...
You would have realized that that list is riddled with inaccuracies, so their claim that 31,000 is a little trite.
And if you want to get all indignant about the head of the IPCC, while the man who funded the institute—which hosts the list—is a scientist, he has done research that has been funded by petrochemical interests. His unproven, and equally loony theory is that global powers and the mainstream media are all in on this "hoax" in order to profit from all the "scare mongering" that is going around. If this is true, then why did the Copenhagen talks end in a near stalemate? Not one consensus was reached, with the poorest countries feeling left behind in the muck created by the industrialized nations who seem hell bent to stay the course.
But you go on ahead and believe the new world conspiracy.
Mr. Mackey And All Other GW Deniers Should Get Educated
If the GW deniers will bother to read this article which is written for kids, they MAY understand why "excessive" CO2 in our atmosphere does indeed cause global warmng.
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/science/recentac.html
So why worry about global warming, it has previously happend on Earth. Well, the current global warmng is causing the Arctic ices to thaw and the 400 billion tons of methane which has been safely stored there in ice for the past several million years is now escaping into our atmosphere.
There are no sensible arguments to say that is not a slam dunk fact and at the current rate of methane releases, it won' t be 100 or 50 years. More like 10 to 20. We'd better act now, for when that Arctic methane all escapes, Mr. Mackey had better have a lot of bottled oxygen to sell. __ Organic oxygen of course.
Wha this geoligist wrote and warned all of us about five years ago is now happening just as he warned, no arguments. It requires just three minutes to read.
Global Warming Is A Hoax
You gave us two stupid articles: one by EPA who admitted to getting their tainted data from the ClimateGate scientists and the other article is on Methane. We're talking about the increasing of CO2. Get with the program. Learn the bogus science behind the AGW theory first!
Is that a fact GW Scam?
You say the EPA admitted their data is tainte. When did they admit that, to wnom and where is that written? Or should we all take your worrds as factual and true. __LOL . There are many articles avaliable on the subject by just Googleing CO2 emissions.
I offer links and where to find factual information and you give absolutely NOTHING but bull. Give it up.
Global Warming Is A Hoax
EPA admitted to getting their data from ClimateGate scientists now known to manipulate, massage and alter data and throw out raw data, "hide the decline", etc.
“Even doubling or tripling the amount of carbon dioxide will virtually have little impact, as water vapour and water condensed on particles as clouds dominate the worldwide scene and always will.” – . Geoffrey G. Duffy, a professor in the Department of Chemical and Materials Engineering of the University of Auckland, NZ.
Citizens have a right to correct information
http://www.newsleader.com/article/20100106/OPINION03/1060320
The World's Glaciers Are Lying To Us.
If the NOAA and NASA atmospheric scientists and those from universities around the world cannot be believed, then we really are screwed. That is where the EPA derives it's information, not from any "Climategate scientists" as you claim. Those are stock false statements from GW Deniers, many who are paid to write such very harmful disinformation.
And citing the absolutely bizziare words of ONE professor against that of thousand of other very highly qualified scientists and professors is not credible. Duffy has been publically shot down by many of his peers by his saying that stupidity. You are correct though on one point, "the people have the right to know the true facts". They ain't getting them from you.
In addition, methane is a greenhouse gas that is far far more potent as a greenhuse gas than CO2 is, over 20 times as potent, so speaking about methane is more important than discussing CO2. If the Arctic's methane gas escapes and it now has a good start, it will increase CO2 levels to over a million ppm. That will kill you__ and me and everyone else.
There is enough methane in just the Arctic to increase CO2 levels by 3,000%. __ 400 billion tons is the lowest estimate.
The largest contributor of CO2 in our atmosphere by human activity is from mining and burning coal combined. Grade school thru college science teaches what professor Duffy says is incorrect and laughable, except it is not funny.
Finally, if we are not having global warming, how do you explain that all of the world's glaciers are thawing at an incredible rate? How do you explain that millions of tons of methane is now spewing out of the Arctic ocean with billions of tons more about to release? How do you expalain any of the results of global warming that are now taking place and are easily observed by anyone and there is no need for scientific data to see it? Where are you hiding out? Go see the glaciers, those that are still here for awhile. There is an excellent article on this site right now about the glaciers melting. Read it and then tell us it is just a scam dreampt up by Climatgate and the world's glaciers are in on the scam.
Global Warming Is A Hoax
You do realize that global warming and AGW are completely two different things, right? And that there are more than one theory to global warming, correct? Can we agree on these two points?
The debate is on man-induced CO2 causing global warming because that's the theory and not on the effects of global warming which by the way is not out of the norm; if it's not out of the norm then it must be natural. As of right now no one knows the major force that causes the earth temperature to rise or decline. AGW points to man-induced CO2; there are also many more theories that state otherwise. Here's a recently peer-review, published paper which I find more creditable than AGW.
Study show CFCs, cosmic rays major culprits for global warming.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/22/study-shows-cfcs-cosmic-rays-major...
Here's a quote from the paper:
“My findings do not agree with the climate models that conventionally thought that greenhouse gases, mainly CO2, are the major culprits for the global warming seen in the late 20th century,” Lu said.
You and the rest of the catastrophists in a debate always deviate from the central core of your bogus AGW theory. So don't point me to links on the effects of global warming by EPA. other entities or anyone based on computer modeling (known to be flawed) and (tainted) data from ClimateGate scientists. A sea rise of 13" per century is not evidence that man-induced CO2 causes global warming and is not catastrophic. I hope we are clear on this.
The reason I dismissed methane out right because it's not part of the debate. If you think methane is the driving force of climate change, go ahead write to your heart content about it. Heck, you should even do a study on it and get it published. Maybe it'll tell you that CO2 is not the culprit (that's my argument) and we can put AGW to rest and invalidates the case for Cap and Trade scam (that's my goal). Once we put AGW to rest, we can start to focus on the real bad guy that causes the globe to warm or cool and clear man-induced CO2 of any wrong doing then we can take action to counter the effects. So I will not debate you on methane -- it's not my argument and certainly will not help me obtain my goal -- the death of Cap and Trade through the destruction of AGW theory.
This is a case of a man shot someone dead and gun powder found on a baby who happened to be nearby and the baby is now accused of the killing. Just does not make sense. 1+1 does not equal to 3 but if you want to believe that it does, be my guest.
Speaking of putting AGW to rest, after more than 20 years and many billions of tax payers' dollars later, ClimateGate scientists still haven't found the empirical evidence whatsoever to make AGW theory true. And here is the IPCC chairman admitting in an interview that there's no definitive evidence for global warming. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QtK-pmw31U and downplays the importance of ClimateGate.
Oh, by the way, do you exhale? Bill Clinton said he didn't -- now that's a true AGW believer. I think all catastrophists should be like Bill Clinton, don't you agree? Practice what you preach.
"If the NOAA and NASA atmospheric scientists and those from universities around the world cannot be believed, then we really are screwed."
We are definitely screwed, in fact it's a "travesty" that we can no longer trust data provided by NOAA and NASA, just take a look at Gore's fictional film, -- it is replete with errors -- it's sickening.
Name those universities across the globe, who did the study, where they get their raw data, who peer-reviewed their papers and where were their papers published and provide links to those papers.
Your Argument is Wrong GW Scam.
Globaal Warming Scam. __ Let's totally forget politics or taxes, etc, on the GW issue for a few minusts. __ You wrote, "CO2 is not the culprit and that is my arguent". __ Try to stop and listen for a minute or two, because that is incorrect and why you are wriong, hers is why:
CO2 from ANY source is what gives the planet it's greenhouse effect, without that greenhouse effect, life would not be possible on the planet. Do you agree to that? You should, because that is a slam dunk fact of life, Earth is a bio-spher an eco-system. And Earth's eco-system is actually quite fragile.
When CO2 levels in the atmosphere are in the 300 to 320 ppm range the greenhouse effect is is in the (minus) side and that amount is about perfect for life on Earth. The planet neither gets too warm or too cold. When CO2 lievels are below the 300 ppm range, we begin to have an ice age, above 340 ppm range and the greenhouse effect moves to the (plus ) side and global warming begins. That's alright if it doesn't go too high and stays on the plus side.
That plus and nimus of the greenhouse effect has occurred many times during the evolution of Earth. There have been periods when there was very little ice and times when the planet was almost entirelly covered with ice. Those periods usually lasted for several million years. Neither of those events have occurred to that extreme since human's written recorded history, which only goes back some 5,000 years. __ Not counting the story of Noah's ark of course.
Now up to the industrial revolution days, in the early 1800s, CO2 levels had been pretty constant for thousands of years, sometimes in the plus side for a few years, but it was mostly in the higher minus side and all of that is revealed in the thousands of ice core samples taken and read by spectroanalysis. Palientologists know what the CO2 levels were for the past thousands or more years.
Since humans began burning a great deal of fosssil fuels, the CO2 levels have climbed pretty steadily and when they reached the 335-340 ppm range, global warming began, about 15 -20 years ago the rate of climb rose far more quickly. Many atmospheric scientists therorized that was not from natural CO2 emissions. In addition to burnng fossil fuels, man also had increased the amount of cattle raising by far more than that of previous years in our history. We also had destroyed many forests which are very important natural sequestors of CO2. Then add in the population explosion of humans in the past 200 years.
All of those things and more, __ such as waste treatment plants, which are a very high source of CO2 emissions, near the top of the list for human CO2 emissions, just behind animal husbandry. Mining coal is by far the worst for human caused methane emission, and of course methane is worse than CO2 for adding to the (plus) side of the greenhouse effect, 20+time s worse. There is no sensible argumen to say thath humans have not increased CO2 levels far above what had been produed by nature. Nature of course still produces CO2 and methane gas and that's fine and nothing we can control. We can control what we humans produce.
Now in just the past 220 years, CO2 levels have climed from the very good 300- 320 ppm range to 350 ppm, which is a dramatic rise in geological time, and in the past two years it have now risen to near 380 ppm. Wow! Stop the train!
Why? Because when global waming has become well established, methane begins to release from thawing ice, like what is occurring in the Arctic region of Earth now. That causes a dramatic change in the greenhouse effect and the feedbak cycle to global warming begins. Warmer planet, more ice melts, more methane releases and it get s warmer and warmer and more methane releases and before you know it, the GW feedback cycle is a runaway freight train and it will finally kill you, -__ unless somethng is done to stoP the train. I don't know what to do, I never drove a freight train. So there we are GW Scam.
All of wht I just repeated here, is available to all by just Googling or Binging, Greenhouse effect, or CO2, or methane, or Arctic methane, or read a good college editin science book about climatology. None of it is bull or myths, or hoaxes. ___ It's how it is.
It tales about a minute for any to Google or Bing any one of those subjects and choose which of the thousands of articles available to read. The college books may be a better choice. That's my argument GW Scam.
Global Warming Is A Hoax
Again, you deviate from the theory of AGW. Yes, CO2 is plant food and not pollutant.
Here's why AGW is a scam. It's a scam because it has not been proven to be true, yet it's promoted to be catastrophic -- the end of the world is approaching to promote your cap and trade scheme. And this people manipulation has been done for decades now and people are sick of it because all predictions have now proven wrong. CO2 continue to increase yet the world temperature remains at a plateau or have gone down since 1998. Again, there's no correlation whatsoever.
The IPCC chairman admitted that's there no empirical evidence that man-induced CO2 is the major driving force of climate change (it can't!). How many more decades and billion of tax payers' money before you catastrophists admit that yes, CO2 is not the culprit, the baby is not guilty -- set him free; let's find the real suspect. But instead ClimateGate scientists tried to frame man-induced CO2 with the Hockey Stick graph until it was debunked.
So write all you want about CO2 to cover the real facts -- the facts remain that man-induced CO2 is not the major driving force of climate change because it can't! The current warmth is not out of the norm.
I repeat: There is no evidence that shows, using observed data for the last 100, 100,000 or 100 million years that CO2 has any effect on temperature (it can't). The evidence is rather that temperature in the long run controls CO2.
The CO2 Lie:
http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=517128
A quote from the article:
"... Earth's ability to absorb carbon dioxide from all sources, including man, has remained unchanged for 160 years. As it turns out, there may be no carbon to offset."
You Are Hopeless GW Scam
We may as well stop arguing GW Scam. . I see you signed on to MoJo Jan 6, 2010, the same day "Eddy" signed on and both of you only commented on this thread, __ many times answering me.
I believe that you and Eddy are either the same perosn or are in collusion and highly suspect to be well _'paid'_ GW deniers. So, I will not bother to reply to your hard headed deceiving opinions, whch are well designed to deceive any who are unsure of the true reasons for th ecurrent global warming.
You refuse to accept proven scientific facts and or admit that global warming is clearly evident by just personal observation, such as the world's glaciers for just one example, are melting away and many have disappeared entirely.
You are a stuck record and your denying comments are very harmful for such an importnat issue for all of humanity.
What Does "AGW" Mean?
For any who may have read the comments so far, this blogger named "GW Scam" and or "Eddy" on this thread, will attempt to confuse the issue of global warmng by asking questions such as, "do you understand the difference between GW and AGW?" They claim that just writing,__ Google such and such is a sign of laziness, etc. They attempt to destroy the credibility of those who understand the truth and what global warming is actually all about.
Anyone can Google or Bing any subject in a few seconds and chooseto to read what articles come up. Or, we can read the articles the deniers post with links and read only what GW Deniers want us to read. Links can be just fine, so is Googlling. AGW means many things,_ Actual Gross Weight, _A Girls World, _Actual Gold Weight, _ "Accelerated" Global Warming, etc.
Global warming is accelerating actually as CO2 levels increase the plus side of our greenhouse gases in the upper atmosphere. In spite of what we are experiencing weather wise this winter in the northern hemisphere., this is a 'normal' winter and colder than it has been for several yeas. That does not detract from the (average world temps). It's quite warm in the southern hemmisphere now and next summer the northern hemisphere will experience a warmer summer than average once again.
Don't be fooled or mis-led by bloggers such as GW Scam or Eddy and the others. They are lying and if paid to lie about global warmng, and many are, they are evil.
If you read the prior three blogs, you will note that GW Scam did not reply to a single thing I wrote in regards to the (plus and minus) to the global greenhouse effect. And indeed, plants need CO2, they absorb it and discharge oxygen. Our upper atmosphere needs CO2 also, __ but not too much __ and that's the issue, __ period!
Just Google or Bing __ Greenhouse effect, __ what is available to read is not a SCAM. Unless some wish to believe the GW Deniers.
Anthropogenic Global Warming
There are 18 definitions I found for the lettes AGW, one is ( anthropogenic global warming ). GW caused by human activity. Human activity adds to nature's natural CO2 emissions to an exces extent that CO2 emissions in our upper atmosphere are now much higher than is desired for a healthy greenhouse effect for the bio-sphere, for the Earth and all that lives on Earth. I do believe that I have said enough, if any deniers can't get it, I don't care.
I do however care very much about what those who may not be sure of the truth of global warming and that is why I bother to answer the GW Deniers as best as I possibly can. __ And no one pays me to do that.
Global Warming Is A Hoax
Again, you explained the theory and gave the definition of the theory -- we understand the theory quite well (everyone does), but your theory has not been proven and can not be proven even with more billions of tax payers' money is thrown at the ClimateGate scientists. If it can not be proven by brilliant scientists with super computer and billions of tax payers' money, the theory is debunked. We all agree that CO2 has risen continuously, yet global temperature has declined -- no correlation in the past and no correlation now. So something else causes climate change. Again, the baby can not possibly be the guilty party. It's the man that did the killing, we should go after him in instead.
I'll explain further with simple math and common sense.
Trace gas make up less than <1% of the atmosphere, of which CO is 0.0386% and only about 0.0012% is from man activities. Common sense will tell you that it's almost impossible that this amount (0.0012%) of man-induced CO2 can effect climate change. Again, the baby can not even lift the gun! How can I make it simpler for you to understand? Tell me.
For you to continue propagandize this obvious scam is (fill in the negative word yourself).
The head chief of the IPCC agreed that there's no empirical evidence to support AGW.
Below is an article that is the death blow to your beloved AGW theory. Read and then spread the word about it because this scam has to end now -- this year! Brilliant people accept science fact, not theory that can not be proven because it can't.
Exclusive: Hungarian Physicist Dr. Ferenc Miskolczi Proves CO2 Emissions Irrelevant in Earth’s Climate
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.5246/pub_detail.asp
Knowing all these facts and you continue to propagandize this unproven theory, then you are a (fill in the blank yourself).
Global Warming Is A Theory?
Why on Earth, would any claim that global temperatures have declined??? All (credible) atmospheric scientists state that the fact is, world temps have risen (almost) continiously every year for the past 100+years and in the past ten years have risen dramatically. I will believe the data given by the NOAA, NASA, and that from credible scientis from every nation on Earth who study the atmosphere, __ that indeed temps have RISEN, __ not declined. Stop lying.
Some may still term the current global warming a "theory" if they so choose. It certainly was a theory 100 or more years ago, before the Earth's (current) phase of global warming began. As of the year 2010 however, I do believe that it is quite safe to say, the "theory" of global warming has been well proven to be a FACT and that fact is easily discerned by any who still have their eyesight.
We need NO scientists opinions to observe the Arctic is rapidly thawing, the world' s glaciers melting, some of which took many thousands of years to develop have disappeared in just the past few years. Check it out, that's a fact. Just Google or Bing Glaciers.
Not busy, want to have some fun and learn the truth about global warming? Okay, just Google__ glaciers. Then Google __greenhouse effect, then Google __arctic methane, then Google,__ earth temperatures, then Google__arctic ice. Read all of the articles, both pro and con about global warming and see if you wish to believe the GW Deniers. After reading and studying the issue, read this article.
http://www.energybulletin.net/3647.html
Wha the author of that article wrote five years ago is now occurring exactly as he warned us and no one with any power is doing squat about it.
Those glaciers didn't disappear and most others are on the same path becaue we are in an ice age or because the world's temp have been falling. I cannot understand why any who have an IQ over 60 and a lick of common sense would argue just that one point. Of course GW deniers avoid discussing that point. They cannot argue it with any sensible words, because it is so very obviously a fact.
Another issue GW deniers refuse to discuss is that hundreds of scientists from several different countries explored the Arctic ocean, sailing in well equipped research vessels during the past two years and they discovered that methane gas was now escaping by the millions of tons from the now warming ocean's sea bed in many widely sepearate areas. Did you get the word__ warming?
As stated many times, methane is 20+ times as potent as a greenhouse gas as CO2 is and when it adds to the greenohouse gases in our upper atmosphere, and it will, global warming will intensify. There is no sensible argument to deny that fact, __ none. __ BTW, Mother Nature does not give a rip about any stupid human carbon taxes.
GW Deniers will not respond to easy to undrstand facts, such as the greenhouse effect is vital for all life on Earth and if the greenhouse effect gets into the (plus) side and stays there for any length of time, that global warming will begin and intensify as the years pass. All of those things are factual, they are happening and any who argue they are not are foolish.
Once upon a time, a scientist came up with a math formula (E=MC2). It was a "theory" and_ many _ other scientists said it was wrong, or just a "theory". One day in they year of 1945, that "theory" was proven to be a fact. Those scientists who had denied it were wrong.
Global warming once was a "theory", by observation of the_ current_ state of affairs, it is quite obvious the "theroy" was correct and it is not "debunked". The Arctic is thawing and the methane there if all released will kill us, unless we stop that from happening. Does anyone know of a more serious problem facing all of humanity? I know of none. I do believe that some GW Deniers must have a death wish. Maybe all of them do. If I was that stupid, I suppose tha I'd rather be dead also.
Scientific Theories.
I will reply one more time to you GW SCAM. You may take or leave my reply how you wish. I am actually writing this for any who may tend to believe you and the GW denying links that support your flawed "wisdom".
About scientific "theories" and how they are often argued by the experts. __ A Hungarian physician, Ignaz Philip Semmelweis, 1818-1865, discovered that if doctors and nurses would wash their hands with a mixture of clorinated lime water, that they could dramatically reduce childbirth fever deaths of mothers giving birth. The death rate for that disease was from 10% in some hosptals to over 35% in others and that varied a great deal from year to year.
Dr. Semmelweis believed the disease was caused by some mysterious unseen microbes, but he could not prove his theory. He published a book on his findings, as in his hospital one year, the death rate dropped from 1% to zero. That same year, at the prestigious Vienna Laying in Hospital, the death rate was over 90%. Semmelweis was ridiculed by the finest doctors in the world, many called him the _ "Fool Of Peth". Few washed their hands and the needless deaths continued.
Fortunantly one of Semmelweis's students was a young man named Lister. After Semmelweis died in a mental hospital, as he went insane because no one in power in the medicl field would accept his several years of well proven findings. Dr. Lister continued on with his work and eventualy, Sir Lord Lister was termed, "The Father of Antiseptics". Lord Lister stated, "All that I am, I owe to Semmelweis". And in 1865, Louis Pasteur confirmed the theory of Dr. Semmelweis. Millions of mothers who had delivered babies during that time period needlessly died, because doctors in power refused to admit that they had been wrong and refused to just wash their hands.
Pride and jealousy,__ mortal sins. Certainly there are highly respected scientists and professors who claim humans cannot possibly cause global warming by emitting CO2. They have _always_ believed that and nothing will change their opinions. They are in the minority by far, as the majority of the world's atmospheric scientists state otherwise.
And don't give us that phony petition signed by 31,000 scientists who say GW is a hoax either, those are not qualified atmospheric scientists and anyone can sign it. And finally, if you check out what is written by qualified scientists, you will discover that it does not require a great deal of added CO2 in the upper atmosphere to put the greenhouse effect in the plus side and you have never replied to that fact.
It is not the CO2 we emmit that is the big problem now, it is the huge amount of methane gas that is now releasing that is the msot serious problem. Global warming will be completely out of control very soon if we do not correct that issue. So just shut it off, you are wrong GW Scam. _ 100% wrong.
Global Warming Is A Hoax
No Global Warming Since 1998 As Planet Cools Off.
Top UN scientists have been forced to admit that natural weather occurrences are having a far greater effect on climate change than CO2 emissions as a continued cooling trend means there has been no global warming since 1998.
http://www.propagandamatrix.com/articles/april2008/040408_cools_off.htm
Judicial Watch Uncovers NASA Documents Related to Global Warming Controversy
http://www.judicialwatch.org/news/2010/jan/judicial-watch-uncovers-nasa-...
Newly released FOIA’d emails from Hansen and GISS staffers show disagreement over 1998-1934 U.S. temperature ranking
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/14/foiad-emails-from-hansen-and-giss-...
'Smoking gun of U.S. Climategate': Weather Channel founder Coleman's TV special accuses NASA & NOAA of manipulating climate data
http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscorner/40749822.html
Climategate: Leaked Emails Inspired Data Analyses Show Claimed Warming Greatly Exaggerated and NOAA not CRU is Ground Zero
http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=4889&linkbox=true&position=1
I guess you haven't heard of US ClimateGate. Read the articles above. It seems you're way behind the time.
Since I presented you with the truth and all the evidence showing that man-induced CO2 is not the driving force of climate change and you still continue promoting this scam, then the conclusion to this debate is that you're a (fill in the blank, I think you're smart enough to know the right word to fill in this blank)!
I even gave links to peer-reviewed papers finding that man-induced CO2 has no effect on climate change, and you continue to promote this scam then you are a ______.
This how I will respond to you from now on until you accept the facts and evidence presented above.
The mini ice age starts here
http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=4846
Life in the deep freeze
http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=4849&linkbox=true&position=3
Global Warmists Feel a Chilly Wind
http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=4883&linkbox=true&position=9
You are promoting a scam!
THANK YOU GW SCAM
Well GWScam, you finally did open my igorant eyes. I read all of the global warming denier links you so thoughtfulloy posted and read all of your comments twice and now I finally get it. Thank you so very much.
Now I understand why the Arctic ice is rapidly thawing, the World's glaciers are all thawing and the Arctic methane is releasing. All this time I believed it was because the Earth was warming, but thanks to YOU, I have learned all of the ice thawing is because the Earth is cooling and it has been cooling for many years.
From now on, if I want to melt some ice, I'll put it in the fridge or a freezer...
You GW Deniers have discovered a new scientific process about heat and cold that will shock the world. Mackes Albert Einstein look like a dodo in comparrison. You are ___ GW Denier.
That ___ means "nothing".
BTW, to be "nothing" is to be worthless, like scum for example.
Global Warming Is A Hoax
Kem,
I don't play around like Eddy did with you and let you jumped all around with your nonsense arguments.
I get to point and knocked (intellectually) you out in three or so posts.
Again, you are made aware that AGW is a scam, and if you choose to promote this scam, then you can only be called and be labeled as a sc*mm*r, a liar to the people, a people manipulator, (fill in the blank), etc.
What is wrong with you GWScam?
What on Earth is your problem GWScam??? I just thanked you for educating me on the GW issue and how to correctly melt ice by keeping it cold and you insult me with words that are identicla to the words used by "Eddy". Wonder why that is?
I know, _ I bet it is because both you and" Eddy" signed on to Mother Jones the same day, Jam 6, and as of now, have only posted comments on this thread to reply to me. You can't possibly be Eddy can you GWScam? __ Nawww. _
LOL, _except your GW denying is not at all funny, it's dangerous and vrery harmful to all of mankind and all life on Earth. So there are no fitting words to describe such as you, a person more dangerous than any Hitler, Stalin, or an insane serial killer on the loose. __ Crawl off and get a life Ed.
Kem Patrick Is A Scammer! A Fraud.
Okay, I'll just spell it out for you.
Kem Patrick is a scammer, a complete fraud!
You need professional help. Ed offers his helping hand, take this chance and help yourself, please.
Good luck, Kem.
Do get help, I mean it.
Okay Dr. GWScam
Thank you f r the advice doctor.
BTW, is your new found method of melting ice by cooling it a fact or just a theory?
And shut up, look at what you have done to the bandwidth.
You have a license to practice medicine? LOL
More CO2 Facts
The Crumbling Pillars of Climate Change
http://theresilientearth.com/?q=content/crumbling-pillars-climate-change
Excerpt from the article:"Faced with an avalanche of new data, many AGW supporters are back peddling from the “carbon dioxide is the villain” line. This after evidence that laughing gas may have a more important impact on climate than CO2."
AGW IS DEAD!
If you want to know the truth about man made global warming go to this website, www.isthereglobalcooling.com
1. CO2 levels today are among the lowest in the last 560 million years
2. temperatures today are among the coolest in the last 56 million years
3. the earth has mostly been in ice ages the past 400,000 years and with brief periods of warming
4. CO2 can not cause much warming by itself no matter how much there is.
5. hurricane intensity is today at the lowest level in 50 years
6. antarctica had the most sea ice ever recorded in 2008
7. there are 300% more polar bears today than the 1960s
8. atmospheric temperatures have been cooling for at least 8 years
9. sea temperatures are cooling
Did you know that the Roman Period and Medieval Period were both several degrees warmer than today's temperature.
*water vapor makes up 95% of all greenhouse gases. CO2 is only 3.6% of greenhouse gases, and since man only contributes 3.2% of all CO2 into the atmosphere, less than 1% of all greenhouse gasses come from human activity.
Only around 36 percent of the U.S. population believe that human activity is the primary cause of a warming planet-down from 47 percent. (Pew Research Center, October 2009.) carbon dioxide’s total heat-trapping capacity in the atmosphere is almost zero.
Maybe Whole Foods discovered what the rest of you need to accept? That a minute change in the atmosphere----0.0056 of one percent---the amount of carbon dioxide that is attributable to humans, has NO impact WHATSOEVER on the global climate?
CARBON FOOT PRINT
iN MY RESEARCH, MANS CONTRIBUTION TO TOTAL ATMOSPHERIC CARBON DIOXIDE ACCOUNTS FOR LESS THAN 1%...IF WE REDUCE HUMAN CARBON OUTPUT BY 40% THROUGH TAXATION ,YOU STILL HAVE 99.6% OF GLOBAL CO2 UNCHANGED. I'M ALL FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND CONSCIOUSLY REDUCING MY ENVIRONMENTAL FOOTPRINT BEYOND CO2. BUT I DON'T SEE HOW MAKING WALL STREET BANKERS RICHER THROUGH CARBON CREDITS THAT THE THEN SELL TO BIG POLLUTERS SO THEY CAN CONTINUE BUSINESS AS USUAL, DOES JOHN Q CITIZEN ANY GOOD... STILL WEIGHING THE EVIDENCE...TJC
It really isn't difficult to
It really isn't difficult to see the damage that man has done since the Industrial Revolution.
You can't possibly believe that the tons of CO2 that we produce daily has no effect on our planet. Just look at the temperature changes that have taken affect in the past few years. We are getting hotter and colder.
This can not be ignored.
What research are you speaking of? What credible information do you have? Post your results. If your research is filled with so much proof, why don't you share it with us?
Global Warming Is A Hoax
Where is the evident that says more CO2 increases global warming? It's the other way around, more warming causes CO2 to increase. We look at the temperature and it says the global temperature has been declining for more than a decade now. How many more years of global cooling before we say it's just climate change? On many occasions in earth history where temperature were warmer than today...Medieval Warm Period is a good example which the ClimateGate scientists tried to hide but forced to correct, Mann Hockey Stick were discredited and computer model failed to predict the current global cooling. Good for you, Mr. Macky for seeing the truth. Michael Crichton would be so proud of you for having the guts to speak out against AGW theory -- it's just a theory.
Turn Off Your Life!
The Industrial Revolution gave you the computer you used to write your comment. The Dark Ages gave you your philosophy.
Testing for bandwidth
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
I see that it is alright here.
You don't have to shout Leper, we can hear.
During your scientific research Leper, did you find that CO2 in our atmospher began a steady rise since the early 1800s? That is when humans began to burn coal and started to destroy forests on a full time basis. If you missed that important info during your research, here is an excellent and credible link to explain it for you.
After opening the link, just scroll down a little and read the article on the right side of your screen. Of course there are thousands of other credible articles about it.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/gigaton
BTW, I believe carbon tax and cap and trade are bogus crap. Global warming is not crap however, it' s as real as bears crap in the woods. .
Global Warming Is A Hoax
The article also states that we're heading into another little Ice Age. The article is outdated and every paragraph was written based entirely on assumptions/computer model predictions (which proven to be flawed) to scare little children. Assumption is not evident. Try again. Kyoto did nothing to reduce CO2 and EU cap and trade implemented in '05 increases CO2, fraud and energy rate by as much as 40%. AGW agenda is to push Cap and Trade scam through the congress and you all bought it. Guess what, it's on life support right now in the Senate. That's a victory for every American.
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