The Case of the Missing Torture Documents
Did ten classified Bush-era documents vanish from a super-secure government facility?
Mon Sep. 28, 2009 3:00 AM PDT
Classified Bush-era documents on the administration's controversial interrogation and rendition programs are missing, according to a recent court filing submitted by the Obama Justice Department. But a Justice Department spokeswoman says the documents may not actually be gone; they may never have existed—even though Bush administration records say that they do. Welcome to the Case of the Disappearing Torture Documents. This is more than just a bureaucratic whodunit. There's a possibility that government officials purposely destroyed records pertaining to detainee abuse.
Here's what happened: In 2007, the Bush administration was fighting a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), which was seeking records related to the deaths of detainees, their treatment, and the administration's rendition policies. CIA lawyers drew up a list [PDF] of 181 documents that they considered exempt from release. Some of these records, which were stored in a secure facility, were so sensitive that Justice Department lawyers lacked the clearances to handle them.
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After President Obama took office, he issued a new FOIA policy, instructing executive branch agencies to "adopt a presumption in favor" of releasing information. The Obama Justice Department reprocessed the ACLU's earlier request under the new guidelines. But when they did so, department officials discovered that 10 documents listed on the index compiled by the Bush administration were nowhere to be found. The Justice Department noted this in a filing [PDF] by David Barron, an acting assistant attorney general, which was submitted last week as part of the ongoing ACLU case and first highlighted by Firedoglake blogger Marcy Wheeler. Barron acknowledged in the filing that even more documents could be missing, because "many" of the documents the Obama team did find were "not certain matches" to the ones on the Bush administration's list.
"It was impossible to ascertain whether the discrepancy was the result of an error by the prior administration when it created the original…index or whether the prior administration misplaced the documents in question," Tracy Schmaler, a Justice Department spokeswoman, told Mother Jones. In other words, CIA and Justice Department lawyers might have mistakenly listed documents that never existed in the first place.
But is it plausible that the inconsistency could be merely a clerical error? After the Bush administration created the index, a CIA official swore under oath that she had reviewed the documents on the original list. And one of the disputed documents was listed on the original index as a 46-page memo "providing legal advice," classified as top secret and dated 25 July 2002. Schmaler says the Obama administration's search never found a document matching that description. Could the CIA and Justice Department lawyers who composed the original list have mistakenly included a non-existent memo—complete with a date and precise page count?
According to Barron's filing, the documents on the original list were stored in a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility, or SCIF, a specially secured room that is protected not only against unauthorized entry but also against electronic surveillance or monitoring by foreign intelligence services. If documents went missing from a SCIF, says Steven Aftergood, a government secrecy expert at the Federation of American Scientists, that raises serious questions about the government's ability to keep sensitive documents secure. "If there is any indication of sloppiness in security procedures at one of these facilities, that's worrisome all by itself," he says. "It suggests that some of the nation's most sensitive information is not being properly protected."
Aftergood says he expects the court will try to determine if the discrepancies between the two indexes are due to an error or whether the documents actually disappeared. "The government will have to do better than shrug its shoulders and say 'I don't know' if they want to persuade the court that this was not an act of bad faith," he says.
Alexander Abdo, a lawyer working on the case for the ACLU, says, "We'll potentially never know what was in those documents."
Comments
Documents? What documents?
Submitted by Something Stinks on Mon Sep. 28, 2009 5:41 AM PDT.
How about that?
The nerve of these government stooges protecting their asses from prosecution, prison and the labels "treason" and "monster!"
They just released tapes of the Oklahoma City bombing and guess what?
Someone EDITED out what happened right before the explosion.
The nerve of these government stooges protecting their asses from prosecution, prison and the labels "treason" and "monster!"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/27/oklahoma-city-bombing-tap_n_301...
Who really needs to know what happened right before the Oklahoma-City bombing and who really needs to know what kind of airplane hit the Pentagon on 9/11 and who really wants to know how we torture human beings and who does it?
Not the public, that is for SURE.
Nothing to see here folks, this is not America anymore.
Something Stinks!
I don't understand. You
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon Sep. 28, 2009 6:22 AM PDT.
I don't understand. You have written record of things you did that maybe you shouldn't have done, so you get rid of the records and pretend it never happened. I mean, what other recourse do you have? It's like a one-night stand that starts with playful telephone cord kink and ends with a dead hooker at the bottom of the Hudson, except with government, you know? What's the big deal?
A nation of monsters.
Submitted by evdebs on Mon Sep. 28, 2009 7:28 AM PDT.
When the tortures of Abu Ghraib first became known, the Bush administration's first fears were that it would bring it down. Imagine their delight when it became apparent that a majority of Americans condoned their policy of cruel and unusual punishment of unconvicted and in many cases, totally innocent people. As a group we are a nation of monsters.
"When shall it be said in any country of the world, my poor are happy, neither ignorance or distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars; the aged are not in want, the taxes not oppressive; the rational world is my friend because I am friend of its happiness. When these things can be said, then may that country boast of its constitution and government ." - Thomas Paine
Well said, my friend, and
Submitted by rdconger on Mon Sep. 28, 2009 11:49 AM PDT.
Well said, my friend, and well quoted. Welcome to the United Snakes of America.
Oops
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon Sep. 28, 2009 6:55 AM PDT.
They followed the White House e-mails down an eighteen minute black hole.
What about now?
Submitted by Barry on Mon Sep. 28, 2009 7:35 AM PDT.
Shouldn't MJ and others be looking into what is going on now with the current Administration? The past is past. You can't change that. We can change/influence the future.
What we can do if we are really concerned about this county's future is be as skeptical and intrusive with Obama's Czars and policies as many are with issues that are done and have no relevant impact now.
Accountability
Submitted by Douglas McClean (not verified) on Mon Sep. 28, 2009 11:39 AM PDT.
So much for accountability and personal responsibility. I guess those only apply to the lower classes?
"The past is the past" doesn't fly when "the past" is serial commission of serious felonies by high ranking government officials.
One of the best ways to "change/influence the future" of government is to hold government officials accountable when they decide that they are above the law -- or even that they *are* the law -- and then proceed to torture people (in violation of several laws, perhaps most notably the Convention Against Torture championed and signed by Saint Ronald and ratified by the Senate) and cover it up.
There may or may not be wrongdoing here, it may well be a clerical mistake. But "the past is the past"? Sorry, no.
Berry, I AM looking at the
Submitted by D_Toad (not verified) on Mon Sep. 28, 2009 9:29 PM PDT.
Berry,
I AM looking at the potential crimes being committed by the Oboma Administration...
He is shirking his MANDATED BY LAW investigation of WAR CRIMES. Which is its’
self a WAR CRIME.
Your argument, however, is a lot like saying…
“Lets quit looking backwards and let everyone out of prison and start over.”
Can I also get out of that running a red light ticket?
Oh yeah they never saw me steal that diamond necklace did they…
Lots of drug dealers want you to add them to the list as well…
Many of them worked for the CIA and sold BILLIONS of dollars of drugs to
The kids of our country… Of course we should leave them out. After all they were
only selling to the poor and black ones…
If law does not exist to reach the time limits written into it
If laws that have no statute of limitation are ignored
What right do you have if I decide to injure you or yours?
What right do any of us have ?
Are we a nation of laws as we were under FDR or Eisenhower or Clinton or Carter or even under GHW Bush
Or are we criminals like Nixon, and Dubya
War Crimes from WWII are still pending and waiting for the Perp to show up.
We know where the Perps from the last group are at.
If you want to charge some of the Dems with crimes you will find me supporting some of those charges...
I am after bigger fish than those found in White Water and the "Hefty Humidor" from the Clinton era.
As I recall the Rethugs spent Years and 47 million dollars to find nothing that was really a crime except the desire not to have his wife know what happened...
OOOPS,,, Obstruction of Justice... Ya got any feeling that incorrect indexes or MISSING papers might warrant the same treatment for people in the Bush WHITEhouse?
How about all of those deleted e-mails which were supposed to be protected documents… Held on GOP servers… Gone Maybe over a million of them… (A law was broken here too)
Oh yeah what about the likely crimes around the DOJ ? How about the voter Fraud charges that were not true?
If you choose to sleep with those Beavers I hope you get a flea collar.
Hugs
:D
BTW If you are from the Glenside area a LOT of those people probably do not like your attitude.
Beavers suck. Really, they
Submitted by fred roellig (not verified) on Sun Oct. 18, 2009 5:50 PM PDT.
Beavers suck. Really, they just plain suck.
But Amen to your point about watching the Republicrats, no matter who is in office. Nailing past offenders will give current offenders pause, however. I'd love to see more investigation into our murderous (500,000 dead Iraqi kids, says Unesco) sanctions in the 90's under Slick Willie.
When all is said and done, however, does all this really matter? Humans will continue being humans, abusing their power, and not caring about those humans belonging to other tribes. The world will go on. Beavers will keep sucking, Ducks will keep owning the state. It's just the way the world is and probably always will be.
Accountability!
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon Oct. 19, 2009 12:54 PM PDT.
Not being concerned with crimes committed by the past administration and not holding them accountable with suitable punishments will only encourage present and future administrations to do whatever they want in light of our apparent apathy about the past. Meanwhile why don't we also take the collected evidence and files from every unsolved murder around the nation and burn it all, we need to concentrate of catching killers of tomorrow right!
TORTURE IS A WAR CRIME
Submitted by Greydog (not verified) on Mon Sep. 28, 2009 7:56 AM PDT.
Torture is a WAR CRIME. Anyone authorizing it, doing it or refusing to prosecute it is a WAR CRIMINAL.
Like so many before you, the
Submitted by Nick Shepherd on Mon Sep. 28, 2009 8:03 AM PDT.
Like so many before you, the assumption in your writing is that the United States and the Bush Administration are at fault for excessive, unnecessary actions in the treatment of terrorists (excuse me... "detainees"). None of us knows if this happened to a handful of these guys or to many of them. You don't know that either. It's sad that that the emphasis has been on our own protection devices and not on the "detainees" that have vowed to kill every American infidel. online casino
An apology
Submitted by David Ritchie (not verified) on Mon Sep. 28, 2009 9:38 AM PDT.
Are you retarded friend? Many of these "detainees" weren't even guilty to begin with. How can you claim to know a mindset when you can't even speak the language that creates it? You only call them terrorists because television taught you to.
Your statement also indicates that regardless of whether or not it happened to a "handful of these guys or to many many of them", you're okay with TORTURING INNOCENTS. Think about that. Just.... Just think. Please. For the love of Allah think.
My god, look at what you capitalize in your writing and what you merely skirt by? Bush Administration, American, United States. Then any reference to someone ELSE is marginalized and lower-cased, even so far as labeled unworthy of life and freedom. "terrorists (excuse me... 'detainees')". This is a serious issue and you seem like the kind of guy that would stick an American beer can up one of their asses for a chuckle.
Swap the variables and see how you stink.
Submitted by Something Stinks on Mon Sep. 28, 2009 9:53 AM PDT.
"Like so many before you, the assumption in your writing is that Germany and the Hitler Administration are at fault for excessive, unnecessary actions in the treatment of Jews (excuse me... "victims"). None of us knows if this happened to a handful of these guys or to many of them. You don't know that either. It's sad that that the emphasis has been on our own protection devices and not on the "victims" that have vowed to drain the life blood from Germany and the rest of Europe."
There you go pal, now you know just what kind of person you really are. Go ahead, take a whiff,
Something Stinks!
Nick you really need to
Submitted by D_Toad (not verified) on Mon Sep. 28, 2009 9:49 PM PDT.
Nick you really need to read around a bit more.
Phucks News will never get you informed
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article68071...
“The alleged crimes and abuses carried out under the Bush Administration will take center stage today with the release of a report detailing brutal CIA interrogations, a document that could trigger criminal investigations later this week.
The 2004 report, which has been suppressed until now, documents in grim detail interrogations of terror suspects at secret CIA “black site” prisons between 2002 and 2004, including mock executions, such as threatening a prisoner with a gun and power drill.
The release of the report by the CIA’s former inspector general comes as Eric Holder, President Obama’s Attorney-General, is expected to make clear whether he will appoint a criminal prosecutor to investigate alleged abuse where CIA officials exceeded their legal authority.
The CIA report, which is being made public after a federal judge upheld an appeal from the American Civil Liberties Union for its release, has been read by Mr. Holder and will play a significant role in his decision whether to prosecute Bush-era abuses. “
…
I guess this was just made up to disrupt your argument?
Hugs
:D
You forget that torture is
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Wed Sep. 30, 2009 8:56 AM PDT.
You forget that torture is severely discredited as a means of getting good information, and that Dirty Dick claims it saved lives, but won't cough up any reports. The emphasis needs to be on this because we're American, and there are certain things we won't do because we can't comprehend the ramifications for our nation's reputation or for our humanity in the coming century. The extremists have only a twisted humanity, one that does not regard people as sacred. Forget whether or not it's effective - when we cross the line into torturing human beings, some inexorably being innocent, we ourselves are eschewing our reverence of human beings, and approach extremism ourselves. Look in the mirror - are you a killer, a torturer, a maimer? This isn't a game, and the ends don't always justify the means. It's a human fault to claim to know anything at all, let alone the result of actions of such nebulous morality.
Isn't disappearing classified documents a Federal Crime?
Submitted by johnhkennedy on Mon Sep. 28, 2009 10:03 AM PDT.
Isn't disappearing classified documents a Federal Crime? Will our Congressional Democrats cause prosecution for these criminals or will they just continue to cover up the many Federal Crimes of the Bush Administration?
Get out in the streets in front of your Congressional Representative's District Office and raise hell.
KEEP ASKING ALL POLITICIANS AT ALL PUBLIC EVENTS
"WHY DO YOU SUPPORT TORTURE?"
If they aren't actively calling for enforcement of our Federal Torture Laws, They DO Support Torture and a dual standard of Justice.
SIGN THE PETITION
Demanding prosecution
.
I'm a 44 year Democratic voter & an Obama supporter- I organized the Impeach Colorado Coalition & AngryVoters.Org - SIGN THE PETITION demanding both a Commission of Inquiry & a Special Prosecutor at http://ANGRYVOTERS.ORG
New rule
Submitted by Douglas McClean (not verified) on Mon Sep. 28, 2009 11:41 AM PDT.
New rule: you can't "classify" a document until you give it a serial number and deposit a vault copy somewhere for release in 50 (or 100, or whatever) years. Problem solved.
Critical Phrase is "not certain matches"
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon Sep. 28, 2009 12:15 PM PDT.
Perhaps the critical point is that the Obama DOJ said "many" of the documents they found were "not certain matches" to the Bush DOJ's index. The key word is "certain". This means that if there was the slightest discrepancy between the document and what was listed on the index, then the Obama DOJ said "we can't find a document that exactly matches the description on the index".
This practice reminds me of Reagan administration people saying in the Iran-Contra hearings that they had no "specific recollection" of something - even though they might have had a general recollection of it. If nobody probes past that subterfuge, then the false denial stands.
In this case, if the index says it's an 81 page document and the document they find is 80 pages, the Obama DOJ could says there was no "certain match". If the index says the document was dated 3/15/2003, but the document they find is dated 3/18/2003, then there's no "certain match".
If this is so, then there could well be no missing documents at all and no problem with SCIF procedures. Instead, there were mistakes in the index and the Obama DOJ is being pigheaded about requiring an exact match.
A clear solution to this problem...
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Mon Sep. 28, 2009 6:11 PM PDT.
A clear solution: waterboard Cheney and his aides. I'm sure he knows where the documents are; and after all, it's not torture!
torture
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri Oct. 2, 2009 5:24 PM PDT.
Former President Cheney knows where the bodies are, too. Leering, baldheaded old goat!
Better check the entry logs
Submitted by Snarki, child of Loki (not verified) on Tue Sep. 29, 2009 3:31 AM PDT.
Better check the entry logs for the secure facility. My bet is that Cheney took the docs.
In his pants.
Under Oath
Submitted by Abraham Ben Judea (not verified) on Tue Sep. 29, 2009 6:16 AM PDT.
That person who swore under oath better not use small planes. Another thing What else is missing? Someone stepped in it up to their neck.
This should be considered in
Submitted by rimchamp77 on Wed Sep. 30, 2009 8:15 AM PDT.
This should be considered in combo with the missing video footage in the Oklahoma City bombings. It may not be as much a deliberate cover up at the presidential level. It may be career bureaucrats doing their own thing and eliminating incriminating evidence - reflecting badly on the president who has little say over bureaucratic policies that have survived multiple administration. Do we give way too much discretionary authority to unelected bureaucrats? Is our legislation so overly broad that it enables bureaucratic control with no accountability? If not, why is it that retired regulators so easily find 2nd careers with regulated companies?
May God's will be done on earth and let it begin - and end - with myself. If it happens any other way it's not God's will.
Mystery Documents
Submitted by Douglas (not verified) on Thu Oct. 1, 2009 1:28 PM PDT.
Check Dick Cheney's pockets.
torture
Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on Fri Oct. 2, 2009 5:27 PM PDT.
Yuk!!! Checking Cheney's diaper is disgusting!!!
I find it disturbing that
Submitted by Marina Gipps (not verified) on Thu Oct. 1, 2009 2:40 PM PDT.
I find it disturbing that the fire in Dick Cheney's office was so easily forgotten.
Oh well...
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